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German study says model 3 pollutes more than a diesel

German study says model 3 pollutes more than a diesel

zerohedge. com/news/2019-04-21/new-study-shocks-electric-cars-considerably-worse-climate-diesel-cars?fbclid=IwAR1Pc_Gw-yHbUxPEda3CpJwUEy498CVvpwJl1NvIyZsUGg8kZj2Fg8GRKdc

"German researchers criticized the fact that EU legislation classifies electric cars as zero-emission cars; they call it a deception because electric cars, like the Model 3, with all the factors, included, produce more emissions than diesel vehicles by Mercedes."

Quite the statement.

Bighorn | 24 april 2019

SSDD
I had a distant relative forward that story to me. The fact that he reads zerohedge tells you all you need to know. I was impressed that I got a thumbs up emoji back after decimating the key arguments in the article.

Garyeop | 24 april 2019

This from the country that brought you "clean diesel".

leo33 | 24 april 2019

Zerohedge is a conspiracy/psudoscience website with an alt-right, pro-Putin point of view. It's not suprising thay they would push a study that has already been debunked. It does raise the question, why are pro-putin propaganda outlets pushing anti-tesla disinformation?

Just_Ted | 24 april 2019

All right, a couple of things:

1. The study's math is off by at LEAST a factor 5, and maybe as much as 20. (they use a battery life of 10 years and 94,000 kilometers! [about 58k miles]) I will put that many miles on in two years. I am going to drive this battery until about 300,000 MILES... (5x as much).

2. Why do these studies ALWAYS burden BEVs with EVERY ounce of carbon in the production... (e.g. "... we assume the office of the mining company for the Cobalt is running the AC at a cost of 296g of C per ton of ore..." etc.). What about the C cost of all the aluminum and magnesium in the block of ICE? What about the extraction, refinement, and shipping of the oil that becomes gasoline?

Ugh, at least my car is 100% powered by renewable energy AND I will be maximizing the "sunk cost" of its manufacture over 10 years. (and I am fairly positive that all the Cobalt and Lithium are going to be recycled)

Bighorn | 24 april 2019

@Ted
Cobalt is also being eliminated from Tesla batteries. Never mind the fact that manganese isn’t used in car batteries, though it is needed for steel production.

sananpx | 24 april 2019

Tesla is going to hurt German car industry most, so no wonder. I read a study one day that coffee is bad and next day coffee can save you from cancer and heart attack. So studies are paid by someone and tell what they were paid for. I know I like my Tesla and it cost much less for me to drive, it is not creating any pollution, my electric bill is 10% more so electricity can't add more pollution then gasoline. Some time believe in simple stuff and common sense.

Madatgascar | 24 april 2019

Tesla is pushing on all fronts, to clean the manufacturing process and energy generation, as well as to minimize hazardous waste. California is doing pretty well with cleaning its grid. When Tesla’s gigafactory and superchargers are solar powered and they eliminate cobalt and other rare earths from their batteries, Germans will lose in the straight-up EV to EV comparison. Better get cracking.

Smhach | 24 april 2019

I know this is low hanging fruit but I can't resist. I wonder if they got their emissions data from this study:

http://fortune.com/2018/10/16/audi-volkswagen-emissions-scandal/

jimglas | 24 april 2019

FUD

Magic 8 Ball | 24 april 2019

Ya Ya

apodbdrs | 24 april 2019

Pure "BULL"! Next we hear that they conducted a study on the benifits of smoking and how much better it is than not!

Magic 8 Ball | 24 april 2019

A lot of folks around here smoke sour diesel and claim benefits from doing so, just sayn'.

calvin940 | 24 april 2019

HA HA HA HA HA..

That's the best Onion article evar!

"German study says model 3 pollutes more than a diesel"**

** Sponsored by the fossil fuel industry.

coleAK | 24 april 2019

First off there is no reputable sources in the cited article. It is not a peer reviewed scientific study. So that being said we should not be discussing its validity because it’s not valid. Just someone’s not evidence-based opinion. As for the clean energy side of things Germany is growing by leaps and bounds on the solar wind production.
https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/gallery_image...

Tcloutier5890 | 24 april 2019

Das b.s.

RES IPSA | 24 april 2019

Depends on what is used to generate electricity for your Tesla. Some owners run their electric cars on coal... others on wind and solar. My M3 is powered by natural gas.

RES IPSA | 24 april 2019

And if you don't care too much about the ecology of a natural river, hydro is one of the best ways we can power our cars.

RES IPSA | 24 april 2019

Now that i think about it, I guess one could reasonably argue that I still drive a "fossil fuel vehicle"

leo33 | 24 april 2019

RES IPSA is spewing half-truthes and misinformation. You'd have to work really hard to make a plugin-electric more polluting than ICE. According to UOCS, plugin electerics are cleaner than ICE even in states with highest % of electricity from coal. Furthermore, electric grid power will only get better as dirty, expensive coal is replace by cheaper, cleaner renewables like solar and wind.

lilbean | 24 april 2019

Zerohedge. Haha!

Bill Korea | 24 april 2019

I read a fellow from Daimler stating “as it is now, manufacturing an electric car pumps out significantly more climate-warming gases than a conventional car, which releases only 20 percent of its lifetime CO2 at this stage…”
In other words, if an electric car is powered from green energy for its operational lifetime, manufacturing the vehicle releases nearly 100 percent of its lifetime CO2. Clearly this is much worse than the 20% of a conventional vehicle? The reality is that legacy manufacturers are facing smaller profits with EVs, and an ignorant consumer can be talked into buying just about anything.

jimglas | 24 april 2019

And smoking is good for you

gballant4570 | 24 april 2019

Psychotic delusion. Invented by humans.

Rt002k | 24 april 2019

I have wondered and marveled at how it is possible for so much knowledge to have been lost from the ancient civilizations for so many centuries. And then I encountered Flat Earthers and other things that are flat out denied even though the information and proof is readily available at our fingertips. Ignorance is infectious.

RedPillSucks | 24 april 2019

Does anyone ever compute the carbon footprint of mining for and processing coal,
or for drilling for oil and processing it into diesel or petrol?

andrewlee05 | 24 april 2019

German auto manufacturers are suffering the most from Tesla's M3 sales. Makes sense.

bpatter123 | 24 april 2019

We agree the BS is strong with this one. But to the extent there is even a sliver of insight, it is the profoundly stupid decision by Germany to transition to solar/ wind by decommissioning the Nuclear power plants rather than the agreed deadly Coal plants.

finman100 | 24 april 2019

do this google search: "why electric cars are always greener"

from correspondent.com

for some reason posting the actual link is not working.

worth reading even if it is Netherlands-focused.

eandmjep | 24 april 2019

As some stated above they neglect to include all the carbon used in the production of an ICE as well as the fuel. I have had to argue since getting my M3 to several individuals that setting aside all production for comparable vehicles, the production of electricity (coal or whatever) compared to the extraction transport and refining of gasoline and the carbon footprint that generates. Tesla' s are cleaner and more efficient. That aside I could care less,the it's the best car I have ever owned.

FactDoc | 24 april 2019

And then it’s gonna be an article about how jews are polluting the earth more than the gazed jews, history repeats itself

I want to wish a sincerly good rest of eternity well spent in hell to all the nazis and gas-paid-lobbyist false journalists polluting the earth with their insanities

finman100 | 25 april 2019

thank u Bighorn.

jimglas | 16 juli 2019

a new fish?
Still a troll

fish90 | 16 juli 2019

What do you mean?

Magic 8 Ball | 16 juli 2019

Fresh fish fresh fish fresh fish..........................

jimglas | 16 juli 2019

heh …..

TabascoGuy | 16 juli 2019

I would like to see more sea perch and flies on that.

Fixed it for ya...

Magic 8 Ball | 16 juli 2019

Diesel shmiesl, have you seen this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

carlk | 16 juli 2019

@eandmjep
"As some stated above they neglect to include all the carbon used in the production of an ICE as well as the fuel."

Right. All one needs to know is refineries use a lot of electricity. It takes about 6 kWh of electricity, good for ~25 miles of EV driving, to get one gallon of gas. The argument should stop right there.

kevin_rf | 30 oktober 2019

I see the spanners are Bank

wasp | 31 oktober 2019

This study is complete bullshit.
I also crunch some numbers, including full lifecycle of both cars, polution created to produce the energy used ( diesel and electricity)..etc using governemental and independant sources.

https://teslaorder.blogspot.com/2019/10/why-ordering-electric-vehicle.html

Creating, driving, and recycling and EV polutes far far less than with an ICE car

andy.connor.e | 31 oktober 2019

Count all the hazardous materials (and liquids) in an ICE vehicle.

coselectric | 31 oktober 2019

The Germans have advanced technology that makes their diesels pollute as much or as little as they choose just by tweaking their software. It's amazing, really. It is expensive software, though, cost VW $25 billion to deploy.

andy.connor.e | 31 oktober 2019

Imagine what VW could have done if they spent $25 billion on EV development instead of spending that on trying to "clean up" diesel emissions. These car companies are not even trying to spend their money wisely.

Bighorn | 31 oktober 2019

And now the Germans are pretending to have a faster car st the drag strip, which the OP points out in another thread. A real FUD generator.

neezer | 31 oktober 2019

lol yeah, right, that's why diesel tech has been officially abandoned by several of the main European automakers already, but they also announced officially that their future focus is on hybrids (can't just throw all those near-future engine builds into the trash along with their investments in the production line and contracts with parts suppliers) and EVs solely ...

Big_Ed | 31 oktober 2019

It may be true here in Tampa, since our power company is almost 100% coal. North of us, where it's mostly nukes, or in the pacific NW where there is lots of hydro, probably a different story.

Bighorn | 31 oktober 2019

@ed
Coal is close/on par with a Prius. Still not as bad as a diesel.

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