Starting with 2019.24.1....
Now for a second wish, CSS
+1 on finally releasing it.
What would be the charge rate for these Chargers?
24.1 appears to be only going to S and X so far according to TeslaFi.
When I get the update I will yet again with the CHAdeMO adapter I have.
@calvin940, I get 47kw when charging my Model S using Chademo adapter.
The last time I used it was 6 months ago at Electrify America charger.
Is there any cost associated with Electrify America / CHAdeMO ?
For the electricity I mean, I know the adapter costs.
jjgunn, Yes you will be charged for using an EA charger. Just need a credit card. I guess we should consider Tesla coming out with a CHAdeMO adapter for the M3 as progress but I really wish there was a CCS adapter. I have not seen any CHAdeMO systems that can charge faster than 50 kW. There are CCS chargers at EA stations that can deliver 350 kW and would be a useful alternative to Superchargers although considerably more expensive.
@jjgunn, yes there is a fee. It was 6 months ago and don't remember.
I just tried it out. But with free Supercharging, haven't used it since.
Would this include a chademo to type 2 adapter as the model 3 in UK and Europe has a different type 2 port to the other models :/
I don't disagree with any of you. The adapter is very expensive, and charging costs are similarly high, when there is generally a convenient supercharger not too far out of the way that will get me back on the road considerably sooner....but there were TONS of people insisting that they couldn't live without ChadeMo a few months ago.
And I do expect a CCS adapter is in development, since they did make one for Europe recently -- it'll just be awhile before it gets released here.
@rajan - Good question -- and again, it's possibly a "in development" item, since that was an entirely new connector for Tesla over there.
My wish was for CCS adapter for US folks. Granted my Local non Tesla Charging stall uses CCS & ChadeMo, but the CCS has a listed higher supported charging rate than the ChadeMo. Oh and since it's at Walmart and they don't enforce the Electric Charging spots, I am sure you will likely see something in the sorts of a 1974 Ford Bronco in the spot you would use to charge.
We apparently have a fair amount of chademo chargers in NS it seems.
The cost is about $7.65/hr US. Seems high but we only have really one central supercharger
Super happy for my Canadian friends, who have a lot of Chademo stations around and not very many superchargers. Big win for them.
We decided to buy the adapter as a "just in case" thing. Tesla is building superchargers at an amazing rate, but they are also selling cars at an amazing rate, and I fear lines on holiday weekends will become common. I'd rather know I can head down the road and spend an hour charging at the Chademo than spend 3 hours inching forward in line for a 20 minute charge at Tesla.
Tesla "chat" support from the Tesla website says it's the same adapter and not updates are require - I know my Adapter for my Model X DID NOT work 3 weeks ago on my Model 3 (I tested it) - but Tesla "chat" support claims it will work fine "as of today" - so a server side change was required? i.e. since. it's fast DC charging it's a Server side feature to allow the car to use a Chademo Supercharger?
we'll see - I think Tech support might be behind the information curve here but I'll test and find out.
The release from TESLA says old adapters will work. You will have to wait until the firmware allows it. I don't think anyone has the correct firmware yet for the adapter to work.
@Kathy Applebaum - I'd be far more concerned about spending 3 hours waiting in a line to get to that CHAdeMO (or CSS) stall. Most installations have one or two stalls, and few are beyond 50 kW (and many are only 30 kW). You're sharing that non-Tesla stall will all other EVs, and there is no assurances it will be maintained or expanded.
At least all Tesla Superchargers are a minimum of 120 kW, and the average location has 8 stalls, with a few locations as many as 40 stalls. With far higher power, it means cars spend less time charging. With V3 Superchargers rolling out now at 250 kW and other changes Tesla has made, the per-car time spent at a stall is even less so cars cycle through at a fast pace.
So I'll admit I have no insight into the charging yet, but according to an online calculator:
120 x 20 = 2.4KW = 16.1mph
200 x 20 = 4.0KW = 26.9mph
300 x 20 = 6.0KW = 40.3mph
If the CHAdeMO is 50KW, then because the calc rate is basically linear for mph,
CHAdeMO = 50 KW = 335 mph??
Also if I select a combo that is higher than 11.5KW, it gives me this message:
Charging speed is limited by the car’s on-board charger (11.5 kW)
In reality, (I have seen the reported numbers on the screen for charging) my home 14-50 NEMA outlet gives me:
240 x 32 = 7.68KW = 28.125mph (at home)
I am not getting the rated calaculator charge rate either.
If someone can point me to a better authority, information or thread, I would appreciate it.
@calvin940 - "Charging speed is limited by the car’s on-board charger (11.5 kW)"
This is really strange. This means you are using AC charging (L2?). CHAdeMO supplies DC power and would never display this message, as the on-board charger isn't used for DC charging.
CHAdeMO (v1) is technically capable of 62.5 kW, but that's at 500V. The Tesla only uses 400V, so CHAdeMO really can only go to 50 kW on the Tesla S/X 85 or better. WIth 350 V Model 3 (and smaller battery S/X), the limit is about 44 kW. This assumes the station is built for max CHAdeMO power at 125 amps. Many locations do not even meet this "max" standard.
Your numbers above don't seem to make sense. Another way to look at this is on the Model 3 LR, at 250 kW, you can peak charge at 1000 mph. So at CHAdeMO at 44 kW, this is about 176 mph.
"Charging speed is limited by the car’s on-board charger (11.5 kW)"
CHAdeMO, like Supercharging, is DC and bypasses the on-board charger which is used for AC charging.
Thanks to both of you for that. I understand now. I think the calculator I was using wasn't correct.
Also that message about 11.5kw limit was in the calculator on the web and not on my car.
I will use the 250KW/1000mph as the guide by which I can drive some approximations.
Thanks much folks
@TeslaTap.com Yes, it's good to be aware there are far fewer Chademo stalls and just one or two users can tie them up. But whenever I used them with my Leaf, never saw a single one in use. (And still true for a couple I drive by regularly). This will certainly change if a lot of people buy the adapter (at $450 I think that's unlikely, at least where I live), or if Asian car makers get serious about selling EVs in quantity (I hope, but I'm not holding my breath). Until then, I'm glad to have another option.
@calvin - for more reference, the urban superchargers are 72kw and charge at about 300-350mph at peak, give or take.
The 250KW/1000mph linear calculation works very well for both.
7.68/250 = 0.03072 * 1000 = 30.72 mph (my home has historically given me around 28.125mph practical) so very close to that theorical (peak)
72/250 = 0.288 * 1000 = 288mph which again is close to what you cite for the 72kw urban superchargers.
This helps me out a great deal as I had never really done any math on this yet but will be getting around the province with the kids this summer so wanted to get some real data.
Much appreciate all your input.
Kathy Applebaum | July 10, 2019
I fear lines on holiday weekends will become common.
Kettleman City. 4th if July Weekend (Sunday) 40 SuCh's filled with a line 12 deep. Unreal
For some people the ChaDemo charger is really important, for some people its of interest (especially if rentable), but for most of us its basically irrelevant.
But for those who need it, I'm very glad Tesla is now supporting it. There'll be a few cars sold because it exists that couldn't be sold otherwise.
@calvin940 Charging also costs and is high. There is a EVGO station near my apt in a mall which charges 30 cents per minute for 50 kW. It would cost me a lot more money and take more time to charge than using a supercharger.
+ It is a dying standard anyway.
CCS on the other hand would be nice to be kept as a backup
The CHAdeMO chargers around NS seem to vary around the $7.65 - $11.50US /hr around here. I am wondering if it is worth it for me to spend $450US plus tax (15%) for basically just a safety net due to those chargers availability.
There are places around Sacramento where I could use the CHAdeMO adapter today. But I have no need to, so I don't see $450 struggling to escape my wallet.
However, if I decide after I retire to fulfill my childhood fantasy of driving the full Trans-Canada Highway, then this could be a key enabler. Tesla seems to be moving fairly slowly getting all the planned Superchargers going.
@calvin: Here's the theoretical math. Just use your pocket calculator!
First: Figure out the kW-hr energy storage in the car. I have a M3 LR; It's nominally 75 kW-hr.
Full charge (100%) is 320 miles. So, the nominal charge rate for this car is (kW's in) * 320 miles/(75 kW-hr) = (miles of charge/hr).
So, I've got a HPWC at home. The AC-DC rectifier/charger inside the car can handle 250 VAC at 48A. Power = VAC*Amps. So, nominal input power is 250 * 48 = 12 kW.
Then, the rate of charge, nominal, is 12*320/75 = 51.2 miles of charge per hour.
However, actual charge rate is 45 MoC/hr, which indicates that the internal rectifier isn't ideal, not to mention that the input voltage varies and is sometimes around 240 VAC.
Next: As People Have Mentioned, superchargers are DC, not AC. They bypass the car's rectifier.
Urban superchargers are around 62.5+kW (Tesla has been making changes); non-urban are 120kW to 150 kW.
At 150 kW, the rate of charge per hour is 150*320/75 = 640 MoC/hr. Now, that's a maximum rate; as the car charges, the rate goes down, starting at around 50%-60% of full charge. But, this last weekend, while on a road trip to Boston, I did see a shade over 600 MoC/hr when the car was at 20% charge to start.
Thanks Tron. Appreciate the math.
I am planning on taking my car up the highway tonight to our local supercharger (non-urban) and see what's what.
Since many of the Electrify America chargers are located in Walmart parking lots, maybe Walmart should purchase a few of these $450 adapters and rent them out. Gets you into the store and makes them some Pesos. Unless something changes Supercharger wise, I would very rarely charge using the $450 adapter; however, in a pinch could be a live saver.
I'm going to try tomorrow charging my Model 3 with chademo adapter (note remember to pull out of Model S). I'll include photos and how much it cost using Electrify America.
Is the CHAdeMO adaptor for the Model 3 the same as for the Model S?
@RedPill - yup. Though it looks like there was an update to the article above that it may have been pulled again. Possibly because they haven't rolled out that car update yet?
Remember folks that you need the 24.1 (or later) software build and that's not generally available.
... and if you have it because of early access or beta program, be careful not to violate your NDA...........
The ChaDemo adapter has been sold by Tesla for several years, but was only supported on the Model S and X. It was released before the Model 3.
Build 24.1 adds support for it on the Model 3.
@M3BlueGeorgia Thanks for the reminder. My adapter will be delivered today, now I gotta sit on my hands before trying it out.
From EVgo site:
"DC Fast Charging. Up to 75 miles, 30 minutes"https://www.evgo.com/ev-drivers/customer-resources/
That lines up more or less with the base calculations derived from the theoretical 250kw/1000mph base which is good. I have very little experience with chargers that aren't my home charging, but plan to get out around the province more and am still debating the purchase of the adapter.
"Is there an English translation?"
You mean an English translation is necessary for "it is supported as of fw 24.1"?
@FISHEV | July 11, 2019
How would I know what 24.1 is and where to find it. My car is new so I'm guessing its OK and Tesla has no caveats about the adapter not working on certain models.
If you were new to this forum FISH, I could accept that response but that's disingenuous coming from you.
Also, it will work in all models, but will require 24.1 or later (which all models will get or an equivalent). The article stated this but the description in the Shop should also include this reference to prevent confusion about when they could make use of the adapter in their M3.
Bahaha FISHEV is an ultimate troll. Don’t give in.