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Elon Musk Joins Yang Gang

Elon Musk Joins Yang Gang

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1160253482424684544?s=21

“I support yang. He would be our first goth president. UBI obviously needed.”

SCCRENDO | 10 augusti 2019

Yang is more interested in giving people money to move to higher ground.

SCCRENDO | 10 augusti 2019

Perhaps he didn’t express himself well at the debate
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/08/andrew-yangs-horrifi...

SamO | 10 augusti 2019

Ha ha ha sure. Your political instincts are terrible. Maybe you can bring back Hillary for 2020.

SMH.

SCCRENDO | 10 augusti 2019

Lol. I would pick 10 other Dems over your one percenter. But if he is the nominee I will vote for him. Btw. It’s not so much about political instincts as picking the best president that would serve your needs.

SamO | 10 augusti 2019

Which needs does Joe Biden fills exactly?

Meanwhile in the reality based world, what plans do the candidates have for the coming automation revolution?

SCCRENDO | 10 augusti 2019

In the primary not my needs but it seems like the needs of around 40% of Dem voters. If he wins the nomination he better fill the needs of most Dem voters and more. Otherwise we are in for 4 more years of this clusterf***.

Now as I am still educating myself about the candidates understanding that he is likely the most tech savvy why don’t you explain to me how he would make a better president than all the others.

carlk | 11 augusti 2019

I'm a lifelong democrat and car lover. Yang is like Tesla. All the rest are like traditional carmakers. They are just followers and will make whatever they think the market will like, Each will cover a little bit different market to the best benefit of the business but nothing else separates them. Only Tesla will tell you what car makes sense and makes one for you before you even know you want it.

RedShift | 11 augusti 2019

“Which needs does Joe Biden fills exactly?”

Electability?

El Mirio | 11 augusti 2019

Electability is a MSM term which doesn't mean a thing, Trump was elected despite MSM declaring he isn't electable.
So those predictions by the MSM can be ignored without a second thought.

Imagine Trump vs Biden or Trump vs Yang on a debate stage, now envision who would do better. The best candidates to defeat Trump are Bernie, Yang or Tulsi.

All the others are just a version of Hilary, offering a whole bunch of platitudes.

Bernie is the only one with a game plan to push through his agenda once in office, he intends to go campaigning for issues in red states during his presidency. THIS is the main reason he might actually get things done.

SCCRENDO | 11 augusti 2019

Everyone is talking about Yang as someone with mystery qualities. I have watched both nights of both series of debates, heard the candidates from time to time on other forums and have gone to their websites. Upfront Yang is low on the totem poll. Yes people have become the nominee from there in the past but it will take a lot of work and I think the odds are small. He may have stood out as regards his $1000 per month plan which may have merits. But I honestly need to study this a lot more carefully. In the debates he has not stood out as yet. I am not sure anyone knows what makes a candidate electable against Trump but I guess the first step is to show signs you are electable against your primary opponents. What else will he really achieve against his Dem opponents? Overall most will do similar things particularly when you realize that the President needs congress. Although Trump may think otherwise. As stated above his stance on climate as stated at the debate was partially denial. He claimed there was not much that can be done about it so let’s move everyone to higher ground. Sounds to me closer to our Mitch than to the rest of us on this forum. He may have the endorsement of Elon but where does anyone see the clarity of his plans and the drive and ability of Elon. Perhaps he should hire Elon as his campaign manager.

RedShift | 11 augusti 2019

“Bernie is the only one with a game plan to push through his agenda once in office,”

That’s the key. “Once in office”.

El Mirio | 11 augusti 2019

Screndo, you should check out his policies, there are a LOT of them with detailed descriptions, his higher ground comments come from the fact that certain areas are not recoverable, i.e. not letting people rebuild in flood zones. He supports the green new deal.

You do realize that the primaries are there to support the candidate with the best ideas, not the one which polls the highest.

El Mirio | 11 augusti 2019

www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTsEzmFamZ8

good interview with yang.

carlk | 11 augusti 2019

Yang will crush Trump on the debate stage. And he will do that without a single word of lie or personal attack.

rxlawdude | 11 augusti 2019

Guess what happens when you give every citizen $1,000 a month.

All necessities will cumulatively increase in price by $1,000 a month.

This does NOTHING.

El Mirio | 11 augusti 2019

Alaska has UBI, did not increase unemployment also did not increase inflation rate. It worked out for them and they want to keep it.

carlk | 11 augusti 2019

That's a weird thought. Maybe the government should take half of our income away so all necessities will cumulatively decrease in price by half. What you said will happen only if there is a monopoly or price fixing. Otherwise stores will sell you things at a price with acceptable profit regardless if you have $10 or $1000 in your pocket. Others will be glad to do it if they don't.

carlk | 11 augusti 2019

The post was to reply @rxlawdude.

SCCRENDO | 11 augusti 2019

@El Mirio. I will vote for the candidate that I think has the best ideas. My point is that Yang has not impressed me so far Debating with 9 other candidates is different from a one on one but he has not been very impressive in the debates so far. I would like all your Yang fans to please explain to me what he offers over the others. You guys have been pretty vague. If technology is his strength then he may be useful as a cabinet secretary than president. I think his $1000 basic income plan is well worth exploring and may make sense. Many economists believe in it. It is a tax break for everyone. But I would like to see any real data that they have on it. Elizabeth Warren and Bernie have the best thought out policies and are effective salesmen.I think Kamala, Budigieg and O'Rourke have it as well but they need to address their baggage. I prefer Kamala of the 3 because the other 2 are too conservative.Biden is too conservative, he frankly seems a little senile. But he has the appeal of the conservative Dems particularly those scared by "socialist" policies

El Mirio | 11 augusti 2019

@Sccrendo
“Mr. Yang has the most detailed and comprehensive set of policy proposals we have ever seen at this stage in the campaign.”
Democratic Party Leadership in Iowa

www.yang2020.com/policies/

I think Yang can grow his footprint in the next two debates which he already qualified for. Kamala, Biden and Warren take large donor money and therefore should be disqualified as prospects.

sosmerc | 11 augusti 2019

As controversial a character Elon can be, I was a little disappointed he would "endorse" any candidate at this
early stage in the game. And if I were a candidate I would worry about whether the association was a plus or a minus.
@El Mirio.....I was under the impression that Warren was not taking "large donor money".....am I wrong? Hope not, cause I like some of her "plans".

El Mirio | 11 augusti 2019

@sosmerc Unfortunately she did.
www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rubycramer/elizabeth-warren-fundraising-dnc

she is also doing a fundraiser for the DNC at 50k a plate.

carlk | 11 augusti 2019

@sosmerc Elon got 24 million twitter followers. It's nothing but a good thing to get his endorsement. That's especially true for someone who does not have much of a name recognition. Elon haters are not likely to vote for a democrat anyway.

sosmerc | 11 augusti 2019

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In a statement, a Warren campaign official said that the candidate herself did not make any calls to Jurvetson in order to facilitate the contribution, nor did the campaign solicit the money at a fundraising event. The official said Warren has remained consistent with the standard she set earlier this year in her pledge: not trading access for money.

Never the less, this was news to me and I find it unfortunate and maybe somebody will question her about it so she can explain in her own words.

@carlk We know there are many Elon/Tesla haters, but not sure they are all Democrats. Anyway, it would be interesting to know how much money Elon will put where his mouth is. It seems that money does most of the talking these days.

El Mirio | 11 augusti 2019

@sosmerc she clarified she will forego big money in the primaries but not general election. this is getting convoluted as she did take money in the primaries, suspicious behavior in my book

www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/02/26/warren_will_forgo_big_money_d...

sosmerc | 11 augusti 2019

I guess we will just have to keep an eye on this. But in reality, there may be no hope of keeping BIG MONEY out of politics....as MONEY TALKS. Whatever it takes....."anybody but Trump"....that's my view.

carlk | 11 augusti 2019

@SCCRENDO

That you include Beto among favorites really shows you care about form over substance. Maybe that's elections are all about but there is an alternative this time around.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P72aSTIK45c

SCCRENDO | 11 augusti 2019

@Carlk. I didn’t say he was my favorite. My big 3 are Bernie, Warren and Kamala at this point. I mentioned Budigieg and Beto because they are relative fan favorites and I think they can stand up to Trump. Budigieg is extremely smart but I am not sure I agree with all his opinions. I think he would have difficulty because the country is likely not ready for a gay president at this time. My opinions are subject to change over the next 6 months. You guys have not sold me on Yang yet. I would like to know what he will do in much more detail. His web site is too general.

rxlawdude | 12 augusti 2019

"Maybe the government should take half of our income away so all necessities will cumulatively decrease in price by half."

If you recall in 2008-2009, many people's income was in fact reduced. There was substantial DEflation during that period.

It's basic economic theory that's the corollary to supply and demand. Increase income for everyone artificially and demand goes up. So do prices.

I'm not an economist, but this is a job for Captain Obvious.

SamO | 12 augusti 2019

@rx,

Please stop. You don’t know what you are talking about.

rxlawdude | 12 augusti 2019

@SamO, are you jerking my Yang?

rxlawdude | 12 augusti 2019

Why not just cut FIT by $12K a year?

rxlawdude | 12 augusti 2019

@El, "Alaska has UBI, did not increase unemployment also did not increase inflation rate. It worked out for them and they want to keep it."

Alaska also has among the highest cost of living in the US. And among the highest income.

SCCRENDO | 12 augusti 2019

We are debating something that nobody on this thread seems to understand. We all need to educate ourselves before passing judgement. I will start the ball rolling by linking a good overview. The article is skeptical but it does not run any hard numbers demonstrating the pros and cons
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/07/09/who-really-stands-to-win-f...

SCCRENDO | 12 augusti 2019

FYI. This is CNN's opinion of the candidates following the second debate. And before anybody attacks me this is not my opinion
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/08/politics/2020-democratic-presidential-can...

SamO | 12 augusti 2019

So you think costs are high in Alaska because of UBI?

lol

Why are things so expensive in Hawaii?

rxlawdude | 12 augusti 2019

@SamO, you and I usually agree on things. Let you have your belief (as Yang's dream will not come to fruition), and I'll believe that UBE has inherent moral hazards that will offset its benefits.

Further, Yang's proposal actually takes away social safety nets!

The benefits that individuals would need to give up are Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program (SNAP), Temporary Assistance for Needed Families (TANF), Supplemental Security Income (SSI), and SNAP for Women, Infants, and Child Program (WIC).

To cover the additional cost of the Freedom Dividend, Yang would raise revenue in five ways:

A 10 percent VAT
A tax on financial transactions
Taxing capital gains and carried interest at ordinary income rates
Remove the wage cap on the Social Security payroll tax
A $40 per metric ton carbon tax

So everyone over 18 gets $12K. A single mom, let's say at minimum wage, gets $12K. But she's got four kids. Is that $12K illusory? I'd argue it absolutely is. If she had one kid or no kids, that same $12K is spent on one kid.

So I argue that this will actually hurt many in the lower economic class that are dependent on those programs that pay per child. (Now, we can debate the wisdom of incentivizing "welfare babies," but Yang's plan radically reverses this with DISincentives for children.

And then there's the 10% VAT, which is regressive. Here's some money, now give it back in tax. Just silly.

rxlawdude | 12 augusti 2019

Close parenthesis last sentence of next-to-last paragraph. ;-)

SCCRENDO | 12 augusti 2019
rxlawdude | 12 augusti 2019

@SCC, you didn't debate the post above with specifics from Yang's platform, and the unintended (or simply overlooked) consequences.

rxlawdude | 12 augusti 2019

Another thought: do Alaskans get Medicaid, SNAP and WIC? Under Yang's plan, they would not.

Illusory advantage for the poor.

SCCRENDO | 12 augusti 2019

@rxlawdude. Indeed I didn't because I pleaded ignorance. I never took him too seriously and put him in the same class as Marianne Williamson. But Elon's endorsement and the strong endorsement of some from the forum got me to try review this and debate it. I am still in the learning phase. I did not find the details you posted but I should go back and review it. If indeed your description is correct then it does not sound like something that will be of significant benefit. The real question is what he hopes to achieve with this and are there simpler more conventional ways to achieve those goals. So far I am not that impressed with UBI per say. I am not clear that there is sufficient relevant data out there. But again I am willing to learn. I am still waiting fro one of his fanbois to show me why he is worth my vote beyond referring me to his website which is long on fluff but short on evidence

SCCRENDO | 12 augusti 2019

I think Alaskans get all the above benefits and this was just a bonus linked to oil revenue and a means to keep people in the state. It seems like they are having second thoughts since oil revenues have diminished. The Scandinavians tried it as a trial and decided not to continue.

carlk | 12 augusti 2019

@rxlawdude

***If you recall in 2008-2009, many people's income was in fact reduced. There was substantial DEflation during that period.***

So you think that was good? Why in hell we tried so hard to pull us out of the recession and get people's income back?

rxlawdude | 12 augusti 2019

@carlk, apples and oranges and strawman.

Let's agree to disagree on this specific proposal.

SCCRENDO | 12 augusti 2019

@rxlawdude. It is basically the equivalent of a tax break. Democrats give tax breaks to lower income earners to spend more and stimulate the economy. Republicans give bigger tax breaks to billionaires in the belief they will spend the money on job creation. This is kind of a hybrid where he gives tax breaks to the poor and everyone else also gets the same dollar amount tax break which is obviously a smaller percentage to the wealthier. But as you eluded to this has to be paid for. Some is paid for by increasing the deficit and ultimately the Republicans cut programs for the poor and the Democrats lessen the benefits garnered by wealthier people. Tax breaks do stimulate the economy and so may offset some of the cost but the universal debate is who spends more when they get the tax breaks. This sounds to me like he wants to impress everyone by giving them something. But we need to focus our handouts on need and also where the economy would get greater benefits.

El Mirio | 13 augusti 2019

@rxlawdude What this amounts to, is giving money to people at the front end instead of the back end.

This increases economic security, it is not a silver bullet people will still HAVE TO WORK. Parents however might choose to work 80% to be able to spend more time with their kids, increasing overall well being in society and reduce anxiety.

Likely VAT won't apply for medicine and food (similar to countries in Europe), also the current average welfare assistance is way below 1k.

Also folks can KEEP their current welfare or opt for the dividend instead (read the proposal more carefully).

Did you know this nearly passed in both the house and the senate a few decades back, dems screwed it up in the senate as they insisted for the dividend to be higher than the proposed amount. Meaning this had overwhelming support in both parties a few decades ago.

How do you propose to START combating the avalanche of job losses due to AI and automation? No other candidate has ANY proposal to deal with unprecedented ongoing and upcoming job destruction due to tech.

Many other high profile people are for this, they realize the technological revolution will be massive (nothing like the industrial revolution) and if they don't take proactive measures this could slip into chaos fast.

SCCRENDO | 13 augusti 2019

@El Mirio. So if the purpose is to help people who lose jobs why not put the money towards retraining and unemployment. This is randomly throwing money at everyone.

jimglas | 13 augusti 2019

I read "somewhere" that 40% of jobs in the USA are related to transporting products. If true, imagine the impact of self driving vehicles.

andy.connor.e | 13 augusti 2019

unemployment!

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