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Taycan revealed

Taycan revealed

With the significantly lower range and acceleration and a dramatically higher price, I don't see this as threatening the Models S Performance. I applaud Porsche for bringing a serious EV to market but this isn't taking the EV crown.

Other considerations:
1. Model S can be bought TODAY
2. Porsche range may be using Euro (NEDC) standard, which is very generous compared to US (EPA)
3. Charging Network?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/porsche-just-unveiled-a-huge-threat-to...

TeslaTap.com | 4 september 2019

Prices start at $150K and go to $200K+. Not a competitor to Tesla.

For the faster $200K version, still slower, less range, no useful charging network when compared with the Model S. What were they thinking?

bhanuk99 | 4 september 2019

By releasing the specs they will be driving (pun unintended) more people to Model S.

PhillyGal | 4 september 2019

Aww, 20k reservations, ain't that cute?

Jokes aside... good on them! It's a sharp looking car and people who love a Porsche will be very happy I'm sure. It'll remain a niche car for a niche driver that has other options for road tripping. People loved the Panamera when it came out and I used to see them all the time even in my relatively low income city.

Everywhere here knows there's no true comparison for practicality or performance. You won't be hauling the kiddos to Disney in this any time soon but that's not the market for this car anyway.

Bighorn | 4 september 2019

Another window into range in the Top Gear video. 29% battery had 98 km of range or a top extrapolated range of 210 miles.

Mathew98 | 4 september 2019

In other news, I hear from a less than reliable source that some red neck mechanic is putting a P100 drive train and battery in a salvaged Yugo. Its listed specs would blow the doors off the Trashcan, errr, Taycan, for a third of the price.

dsteal | 4 september 2019

The article says the range is 257 miles. My 75D is 265 miles, so I guess it's not that far off. I don't know if that is EPA or whatever else rating. So I'm not sure if it's an apples-to-apples comparison. The other part that I'm not sure about is if the battery on Taycan is supposed to be charged to 100% all the time, unlike the Tesla which I charge to 80% or 90% max on a daily basis.

Overall, I would say it's cool to see an electric sports car and to see a major manufacturer come out with it. But the 'base price' of 150K though is stratospheric. Not for me.

carlk | 4 september 2019

On the Porsche forum many say its DOA.

Boonedocks | 4 september 2019

I was so hopeful for some true competition in this space but I was completely underwhelmed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Mathew98 | 4 september 2019

It would have been competitive 8 years ago. Before the MS went into production...

dsteal | 4 september 2019

I personally hope it is not DOA. Competition is a good thing. It makes sense for Porsche to start out really high to limit adoption. Once they work out problems, which are almost guaranteed, they can start coming down in price and increase volume.

mcdonalk | 4 september 2019

Having owned two Porsches in the past (since 2001), each new in their first model year or soon thereafter, I have the right to say that, based on my experience, one is ill-advised to buy a Porsche until after the model has been out a few years.

Keith

inconel | 4 september 2019

IMO this is all Tesla faults. Porsche targeted the pre-Raven Model S P100D then all of a sudden Tesla decrease that car price from around $140k down to $100k and increased range to 345 miles. Nicht fair!!!

ATCRomes | 4 september 2019

infogram.com/porsche-taycan-1h8j4xzey7rr2mv

No, thanks.

carlk | 4 september 2019

@mcdonalk Same here and I agree. Porsche had to push the limit and add new and less tested features to justify the price it charges. This time around it's a new EV game it had never done before. I'm sure it has struggled to achieve the spec even as is. The two speed gear is a give away. Doing that did not make the car accelerate faster or to have higher top speed than the model S. No one knows the long term reliability of the transmission. We'll see.

Bighorn | 4 september 2019

Over/under on the take rate amongst refundable security deposit holders: 10%

TeslaTap.com | 4 september 2019

It really is good news for Tesla. Most Taycan buyers will want to trade it in for a Tesla once they learn about the differences. Even with the expected 30% first-year Taycan depreciation, they can afford to buy the P100D and still have a better vehicle!

caseyd | 4 september 2019

I put a deposit down about two years ago for the Taycan (Mission E). In anticipation for delivery later this year I sold my 2014 P85+ a few months back. When I started hearing whispers about the price for the Turbo model eclipsing $160,000 I entertained the idea of another Model S. I was pleasantly surprised when I priced out a fully loaded Raven Performance model at a little over $100,000. I decided to pull the trigger on the MS received it in a few days. After today's unveiling of the Taycan I am confident I made the right choice. After configuring the Porsche the way I would have wanted it, the final tally was right at $200,000!

JAD | 4 september 2019

@dsteal, the 257 range is on the HIGHLY over optimistic European test cycle. The EPA range will be much lower than 257, maybe not 210, but pretty close. Watch out e-Tron, Porsche is coming for ya....

jkercheval466 | 4 september 2019

If there is one takeaway I think Tesla should look at is the marketing efforts around this roll-out. Porsche did an excellent job marketing this car and the hype around it was pretty big. I still don't think the greater car buying population knows how affordable and fun a Tesla EV can be.

carlk | 4 september 2019

That exactly reflects the difference between the two companies. Porsche is probably the greatest marketing company in the world while Elon does not want put a single cent into marketing. He just wants to do the best engineering and produce the best product. I've said a little earlier Porsche marketing would never allow it to sell a P3D at $60K or like @caseyd says a Raven performance at $100K. I also said let's see which approach will win out. After today's event it's pretty clear Tesla will win.

SamO | 4 september 2019

Tesla spends on “marketing” not advertising. Even a portion of the Supercharging Network is accounted for in marketing.

lph | 4 september 2019

Aww, Cute little Taycan.
Be gentle on Porsche, its all they can do...
Not the slightest bit impressed so far.
Keeping my M3P.

DRFLGD | 4 september 2019

I knew it would fall well short of their promises.

nukequazar | 4 september 2019

Such bad car names from modern Porsche. And why, on earth, would they call it a turbo? I don’t know how any self-respecting car enthusiast could drive an electric car with a turbo emblem on it.

nukequazar | 4 september 2019

But I would venture to guess that the materials, fit, finish, paint, customer service, and functionality of the advertised features blows Tesla out of the water. Also CarPlay and fully integrated Apple Music. This is all where Tesla has to get its act together otherwise the companies with decades of experience building beautiful cars with A+ user experience will put Tesla out of business once they get their EV and self-driving worked out.

nukequazar | 4 september 2019

As a Model S owner and stockholder, this is constructive criticism not bashing. I love the cars and the mission but Tesla seriously has to step up its game in these areas.

Silver2K | 4 september 2019

What material would be better? Tesla does not use leather. Tesla uses alcantara which is used in lambos. They have better aluminum?

What makes it 100k better? Lower range? Lack of charging network? They lack so much in comparison.

redacted | 4 september 2019

@nudeqazar, I had a PC with a turbo button. Just sayin'.

Bighorn | 4 september 2019

My boom box has turbo-boosted bass.

jordanrichard | 4 september 2019

RE; “Turbo”. All 911s are now turbo’d And as a rep for Porsche said at the reveal at Niagara Falls, Porsche fans have come to recognize “turbo” and “turbo S” as being the top of the line. That is the logic of using “turbo” in the line up for the Tacan.

I think the car looks great with the large white rims, but the interior is LCD screen overkill.

nukequazar | 4 september 2019

A PC and a boom box. Point made. Thanks.

nukequazar | 4 september 2019

@jordanrichard, it’s incredibly condescending to Porsche drivers and devalues the brand immensely. You can call it a joke, a lie, or cheap marketing but an EV is not turbocharged. It basically ends Porsche’s run as a serious sports car company which has been a long time coming.

carlk | 4 september 2019

Making good EV is not easy even though Tesla made it appears to be so.

Tropopause | 4 september 2019

I wonder how folks are going feel when the Performance Model S beats the Taycan in the 1/4 mile... and at every stop light.

milesbb | 4 september 2019

I do not disagree with the above comparisons between the Model S and the Taycan. Porsche has done some interesting work however.

Their battery Pack cooling is a nice design, clearly it can take thermal abuse that the Model S cannot. The repeat accelerations, the Nurburgring record, the 3,000 + kM 24 hr record are all indications that they have done a superior job designing the battery pack for repeated thermal abuse. In the next year I expect the model S/X will get a revised battery pack that improves the ability to handle thermal abuse, likely taken from the Model 3 that does a much better job. Did you see the level of regenerative braking that is available in the Taycan, up to 265kW, blows the Model S 60 kW limit away.

The two speed gearbox allows better horsepower at higher speeds. Published curves show how Tesla motor HP drops at the upper RPM's. A higher ratio second gear keeps the motor RPMs down and the horsepower up. I believe 2019 Porsche can pull off this gear box design, a design that 2009 Tesla could not.

The Taycan should be compared to the new Tesla Roadster. The advantages Taycan has will not show up on the street. If someone is looking for a car to race on Sunday they would be looking at a new Tesla Roadster not a Model S. We all know how that comparison will go.

mickel.werner | 4 september 2019

The CEO of Porsche said a few months ago that Tesla has a 5 year lead on the competition, and when they will have caught up with Tesla, their lead will have increased even further. Market analysts gather it will take the auto giants 10 years to be on par with Tesla.

The Taycan is a very nice addition to the EVs, and I applaud them. They are a niche player (expensive sports cars) now entering a even smaller niche market. 5 years ago, this car would have killed!

LukasM | 5 september 2019

What I cannot understand:

1. The Taycan and the Tesla MS are almost exactly the same size. Although, with a smaller battery, the Taycan Turbo S is roughly 200 lbs. heavier than the Model S.

2. Comparing WLTP range and battery size, the Taycan Turbo S has a range of 412 Km and a battery of 93.4 KW. The resulting consumption is 22.7 KW/100 Km. The Tesla MS Performance has a range of 590 Km and a battery of 100 KW. The resulting consumption is 17.0 KW/100 Km - 25% less than the Taycan.

If this is the best German engineering can do: It is not enough.

redacted | 5 september 2019

@LukasM, I believe the Taycan is a 100kWh battery with 93.4 usable. So probably about equivalent to Tesla. With regard to its performance, I think like the (what's the other? Audi? Jaguar?), it's got equivalently poor energy usage. I show Porsche some sympathy because it's a bunch of gas engine guys trying to make an electric motor work.

At least it doesn't make fake engine noise. I hope.

tduffy50 | 5 september 2019

"The Taycan should be compared to the new Tesla Roadster. The advantages Taycan has will not show up on the street. If someone is looking for a car to race on Sunday they would be looking at a new Tesla Roadster not a Model S. We all know how that comparison will go."

+1 @milesbb

LukasM | 5 september 2019

Battery capacity of the Taycan is 93.4 KW gross, net (usable) is 84 KW.

barrykmd | 5 september 2019

redacted | September 5, 2019
At least it doesn't make fake engine noise. I hope.

It does make some noise at low speed, as required by EU law.

Which would be better - fake engine noise or fart noise?

bp | 5 september 2019

Despite comments in the media, Tesla has a multiyear lead in battery and AP/FSD technology. And the Taycan confirms this - with lower range, lack of AP/FSD functionality and higher price.

Unless the other manufacturers decide to lose money on their EVs, it's going to be difficult for them to produce a vehicle that matches S/3/X/Y across the board for range, performance, price and size.

The one interesting technology Tesla should consider is the 2 speed gearbox - that would allow Tesla to continue to offer quick acceleration - and reduce energy consumption when cruising at highway speeds.

But even with that, the Taycan has less range than Model S...

RAR | 5 september 2019

@redacted At least your turbo PC had a blower (fan).

SO | 5 september 2019

“Which would be better - fake engine noise or fart noise?”

Well....one is meant to be a joke. The other is not “meant” to be a joke....but ultimately is.

barrykmd | 5 september 2019

bp | September 5, 2019
The one interesting technology Tesla should consider is the 2 speed gearbox

I believe Tesla tried this in the Roadster and kept stripping gears, so they finally just locked it into one gear.

carlk | 5 september 2019

@bp Tesla apparently does not need a second gear to get the same performance. The jury is still out of long term reliability of the Taycan transmission. Porsche does not have a good track record on that for new engine and transmission designs. It out to be interesting to see how Roadster II achieves the 250 mph top speed.

dougk71 | 5 september 2019

Looks like the Taycan is not a threat to Tesla in many important areas such as acceleration and range.
There could be a slight edge in charging speed assuming a Taycan can find a fast charger.
The Tesla just seems more efficient but there is one area the Taycan might excel in. The area is the retention of charge. Sure it is euphemistically named phantom loss but a Tesla loses 1% or up to 3% overnight when parked in a home garage. This is as inefficient as leaving a 100w incandescent garage light on every night.
Just maybe the Taycan is more frugal and can maintain its charge level better than a 100Kwh Tesla

reed_lewis | 5 september 2019

The worst thing about the Taycan is that to get 150 kW 400V charging you have to pay an additional charge for that. Imagine if Tesla cars required extra money to Super Charger faster than slower?

reed_lewis | 5 september 2019

Without the extra charge upgrade it only charges at 50 kW using 400V. That is CHAdeMO speeds. Since there are many 400V DC charging stations out there, this is kind of like having a Leaf for long range travel.

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