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For peace of mind set the display to percent instead of range

For peace of mind set the display to percent instead of range

One of the most common topics here is the perceived loss of range because people see that the range meter is showing less than the expected range, one day it's 278, another it's 275 and sometimes it's 271. In your hear of hears you know that the battery isn't really degrading before your eyes but the range display makes it seem as if it is. I fliped my display to percent the other day and it's had a real calming effect. The charge level bounces around a little, today it's at 89% but last night it was at 88%, that's just due to the vampire drain and when the car decides that it needs to top the battery off. When you are driving and you really do need a range estimate the energy graphs are a far far better way to get that information because the estimate on the energy graph is based on the recent energy use from driving and the heater, you can also see how your energy use varies minute by minute. There is nothing disturbing in the energy map because it's clear that it's based on speed, going up or down hills, and heat are what it's basing the number on, not the health of your battery.

Magic 8 Ball | 12 december 2019

^ What he said, whatever that is?

rxlawdude | 12 december 2019

@bjrosen +1

h2ev | 12 december 2019

I said this many times before. This was the second thing I changed on the car right at the Tesla center before driving off, after changing the seat position.

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 12 december 2019

True. Done the same next day after buying a car.

raqball | 12 december 2019

I stayed at miles displayed for a few months before switching to %.. I have an SR+ so I generally just use % x 2 = miles left.

After years of ICE vehicles and having miles burnt into brain it takes a little time to adjust.. Now when I see destination is xx miles away I just adapt to % shown and see if I have enough juice to make it there or if I need to stop and charge..

Atom12 | 12 december 2019

+1

andy.connor.e | 12 december 2019

Need this topic pinned to the top.

bradbomb | 12 december 2019

+1 OP
I haven't switched mine to percentage, but I agree with the idea for people who feel range anxiety.

Bighorn | 12 december 2019

It also aligns with the Nav arrival in %SOC. No reason for rated miles.

derotam | 12 december 2019

There are a plethora of ways to look at this an analyze it. Do what you want for whatever reason you want...just don't complain when something changes and causes the way you are looking at it to not be the most appropriate way anymore.

Haggy | 12 december 2019

I'd like to see a third option, which would be to be able to display the estimate that I'd see on the energy screen/graph. I'm fine with the miles, since on the Model 3 it's useful. With the Model S, I rarely get rated range. With the Model 3 it's not tough for me to do.

robert rogus | 12 december 2019

But you would still get the same range loss (winter, fast driving, etc) in percent or miles, correct? Or are you saying the miles remaining calculator is unreliable, while percent is?

derotam | 12 december 2019

@robert rogus: Yes, you will still see the same range loss whether in percent or miles. In Percent it will tick down 3-4x slower.

I would be ok if they showed both at the same time, I don't like the one or the other.

derotam | 12 december 2019

*it will tick down 3-4x slower because each % *ideally* equals approx 3 miles.

Pg3ibew | 12 december 2019

@derotam, SPOT ON!!! I call it using common sense!!

sonywega17 | 12 december 2019

Tried the percentage thing, then changed it back to miles. I prefer the miles display for some reason.

kevin_rf | 12 december 2019

Personally prefer miles.

On long trips, it gives me a better idea of how much distance I have left. Even when I drove ICE's, I would often do the conversion to miles in my head.

bjrosen | 12 december 2019

robert rogus@ The range in the energy graphs is meaningful, the range meter isn't. The range meter is just the battery percentage * a constant, it doesn't take your actual energy usage into account, that's why it's better to leave it as a percentage because that what it really means. The energy graphs show your actual energy usage and then calculates a range based on the last N miles, where N is 5 to 30, your choice. Energy usage varies massively depending on the heater, the terrain and the speed, the energy graphs factor that in to the range estimate so it's much closer to reality than the range meter.

My other point was that you get mislead about the capacity of your battery because you don't know the actual charge level if you rely on the range. I've set my car's charge limit to 90% and I've assumed that it maintains that level. The expected range of an AWD @90% is 279 so it's disturbing to see a lower number. My car has been sitting in the driveway all week, it's plugged in so vampire losses should be replaced. But it doesn't work like that exactly, the charge level is allowed to drift down a little, when it hits some level the car will top itself off and then stop charging. This morning when I posted this my charge level was 89%, that translates to 275.9 miles, now a few hours later it's at 88%, that would be 272.8 miles. Has my car battery degraded a percent in the last few hours, of course not, but if you just look at the app occasional and assume that the charge level is at the percentage that you selected you could come to that conclusion. Someone posts something about range loss every day especially new owners. The problem is the user interface not the battery, if they posted both the range and the percentage at the same time no one would be confused but given that they only post one or the other the wise thing is to set your display to % and then relax.

Maxxer | 12 december 2019

Does your iPhone show number of minutes of usage left?

No, because it depends on the apps you use

andy.connor.e | 12 december 2019

+1 @Maxxer

Sparky | 12 december 2019

OK, I'm doing it.

andy.connor.e | 12 december 2019

Although my laptop tells me how much time i have left BASED on my current usage. Why not have an updating range based on your current usage. That way your car can yell at you

"Hey moron, you're cranking the heat too dam much and stop being such a lead foot. You're never going to make it the next 100 miles like that"

Thats what i want my Tesla to say to me.

vmulla | 12 december 2019

My mental math is miles based - just a preference.
It's something that I can keep consistent across my LR and my cousin's MR (When I drive it)

vmulla | 12 december 2019

This is actually happening now (The message like - Hey moron, you're cranking the heat too dam much and stop being such a lead foot. You're never going to make it the next 100 miles like that)

It's just more polite - Keep under Xmph to reach your destination

robert rogus | 12 december 2019

bjrosen I agree the best way to determine actual range remaining from the info we have available on our screens would be in energy app and look at consumption over last 30 miles, with expected range remaining off to the right. If you’re on a long leg trying to get to the next charger, that will give you actual range to expect based on your last 30 miles’ average wh/mi. Also the “drive slower” nag is a clue you’re getting skoshie.

robert rogus | 12 december 2019

But even that is not quite accurate, my energy screens show 234 wh/mi as “break even” and I think my actual break even is down around 222 or something.

Kathy Applebaum | 12 december 2019

I tried percentage for a while, flipped it back because I found myself always converting it to miles in my head. I don't need that aggravation while I'm driving.

That said, having driven a Leaf before the Model 3, I have no problem looking at miles and knowing it's a lie and knowing by how much it's a lie. But I also get that not everyone feels the same way. Nice that we can change the display around until we find something that works for us. :)

Effopec | 12 december 2019

I think there's a couple of factors that lead to the range anxiety/oh my god is my battery failing mentality:

First, the granularity you have in the range down to the mile. ICE cars have traditionally just had the F-E fuel gauge, and if it does show miles most wouldn't even look at it until it was under 100. But most people don't even know the rated range for the full car, so don't have any clue if the fuel gauge is showing less after they top off unless the number changes by a lot.
Next, Tesla quotes a range and people pay for an expected range. If they're not getting what they were promised, out come the pitch forks.
And finally, there isn't a super charger on every corner, so that leaves some concern about getting stranded. I charge to 75% every night - in my daily driving around town I never even look at my remaining range. So for that it wouldn't matter if it was in miles or %. On road trips I like to have miles shown so I can match it up with the distance to the next charger. Sure the nav does it anyway, but it's a sanity check.
In the end, once chargers are as prevalent as gas stations I don't think people will be as concerned with the range. But today the combination of paying for a certain range and having trips where charging isn't possible or is inconvenient (L1 or L2) it can become an issue.

IHaveArrived | 12 december 2019

Yeah, good advice -- if you are prone to whinging about range. Me, I prefer the miles display.

robert rogus | 12 december 2019

Kathy Good points. The bottom line is you’re not going to get the range shown on the screen unless your wh/mi is down below 230. You don’t need to worry much about it unless your wh/mi us creeping up to around 300 and you’re driving more than a couple hours away from home.

Shesmyne2 | 12 december 2019

I drive mostly locally and I keep it on miles.
When I take a road trip, for some reason I’m more comfortable with it on % cause that’s how I learned in the
‘12 S.

Still Grinning ;-)

drift | 12 december 2019

Every car I've driven ICE or EV covers miles. Every road sign I've seen shows miles to destinations not percentage.

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 12 december 2019

@drift
When I drive my ICE car I don't look how many miles of range left in my gas tank. I look how close I am to empty and fill up. Same applys to % meter.

teslu3 | 12 december 2019

From the start I only use percentage. I flip to distance temporarily to check estimated range, just for curiosity.
For LR, just multiply percentage left by 3 for a good mileage estimate. My 100 mile commute uses from 28 to 32%, close enough to the expected 325 mi range.
It is much more accurate than the Prius I traded in. It had 10 "bars" that were much more unpredictable. The TM3 causes much less range anxiety.

Big_Ed | 12 december 2019

LOL, sounds like the old pilot joke about what to do if your engine quits right after takeoff at night. Turn on the landing light and identify a suitable landing site straight ahead. What do you do if you don't like what you see? Turn the light off.

FISHEV | 12 december 2019

Percentage doesn't work for many people due to charging issues. 310 becomes 232 miles staying within the 10%/85% range and that becomes 162 miles in temps under 40 Deg F. That becomes 138 miles if driving 70 mph on the freeway.

What does it mean when battery is down to 20%?

20% of 301 is 60 miles of range left.
20% of 232 is 46 miles of range left.
20% of 162 is 32 miles of range left.
20% of 138 is 27 miles of range left.

Percent tells you little. You have to know the miles.

-TheJohn- | 12 december 2019

If it wasn't for the fact that Fishev lies about damn near everything you'd totally be able to trust what they say above but since they do lie..
Don't trust anything they say. Multi-year many named anti-Tesla troll and sorry to inform you of this but it's true!

Please go away dude/dudette.

Trekman | 12 december 2019

@drift +1000

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 13 december 2019

Disclaimer!
As you all already know resident Troll needs special treatment. Please keep him on diet and don't feed the Troll. (For new comers it's FishEV)
Thank you

robert rogus | 13 december 2019

WW Posts of you guys complaining about Fish are really more annoying than the posts by Fish themselves, which are “complainy“ and often mildly wrong, but do not seem to me to be anti Tesla trolling.

robert rogus | 13 december 2019

I think the only good reason to pick percent over miles on the main screen would be if the percent reading were more accurate. I don’t think this is the case, as both have quite a bit of “slop” in their calculations.

Magic 8 Ball | 13 december 2019

@robert rogus Perhaps you don't know the FISHEV story?

FISHEV is a virus that that has been on this forum for many years posting anti-Tesla rhetoric, propaganda, and lies.

He used to have a user name of EaglesPDX if you wish to do some homework and see the vitriol he posted under that name. The reason people are upset with him is he is here purely to disrupt and antagonize with nothing positive to say about the Model 3 other than it is an EV.

derotam | 13 december 2019

AHH my post nuked! Short version..

@bjrosen | December 12, 2019
"My other point was that you get mislead about the capacity of your battery because you don't know the actual charge level if you rely on the range."

As per long time owners of Model S's with actual battery degradation...the car will still show 100%(or 99%) at "full" charge even with a degraded pack. 100% is 100% of the available capacity. Since miles is also related to available capacity, miles will give a better representation of pack capacity.

Now there are some *** here... BMS miscalibration because of various reasons including how the user is using the car... Software update changing some constant or voltage reference tables...etc.

Biggest take away, while it is all going to boil down to personal choice, as the battery actually degrades, the miles metric will give a more accurate representation of current pack capacity.

FISHEV | 13 december 2019

"I agree the best way to determine actual range remaining from the info we have available on our screens would be in energy app."

Which is what Tesla should show on the main screen instead of inaccurate "Rated Range" which is going to be off by 30-40% in cold weather another 20% if one is driving the speed limit on most freeways and that's after one is already running on 75% of the battery to avoid damaging deep discharge/high recharges.

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 13 december 2019

Again 75 % charge limit is total bs from Troll. Elon said it himself charge to 90 and don't look back.

FISHEV | 13 december 2019

"Elon said it himself charge to 90 and don't look back."

Elon says a lot of crazy stuff on Twitter and Elon can afford the battery degradation and range loss better than I can. Li-on battery science says no lower than 10% and no higher than 85% to slow battery degradation. This especially applies if one is using fast DC charging which increases battery degradation. Even that is on the high side but necessary for practical use.

"EV, typically limit the charge to 85% and discharge to 25%, or 60 percent energy usability, to prolong battery life."

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based...

Magic 8 Ball | 13 december 2019

@FISHEV is a virus that attempts to infect the uninformed
His "errors" are a purposeful attempt to create malinformation.

The battery can be charged up to 100% without being damaged and for regular use it can be charged to 90% without damage.

FISHEV | 13 december 2019

If you don't want read the science on Li-on, here's some of the tech info.

"Figure 8 extrapolates the data from Figure 6 to expand the predicted cycle life of Li-ion by using an extrapolation program that assumes linear decay of battery capacity with progressive cycling. If this were true, then a Li-ion battery cycled within 75%–25% SoC (blue) would fade to 74% capacity after 14,000 cycles. If this battery were charged to 85% with same depth-of-discharge (green), the capacity would drop to 64% at 14,000 cycles, and with a 100% charge with same DoD (black), the capacity would drop to 48%. For unknown reasons, real-life expectancy tends to be lower than in simulated modeling"

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based...

Magic 8 Ball | 13 december 2019

Do you understand what: "If this were true" means? The operative word is "if".

Iwantmy3 | 13 december 2019

I am sorry, but ignorance is not bliss.

I have a very good idea as to what to expect w.r.t. energy consumption for my car on a long trip as a result of various speed and outside temperatures. I can look at the rated miles remaining display I estimate my actual range over the next couple hundred miles with more accuracy than looking at my energy graph (which can be distorted due to transient issues like initial heating of the car, local elevation changes, etc.).

If I was just looking at the percentage of battery remaining, I would have no idea what the current battery capacity actually is.

If there were chargers on my route every 10 miles, it wouldn't matter. But, when I am approaching a charger and have 60 miles left to drive until my next charging opportunity, I want to know exactly what range I have left. Seeing a % remaining of an unknown quantity would mean absolutely nothing.

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