Due to the very low efficiency of the Taycan, Teslas add more miles per minute than the Porsche. However, the Taycan is much faster when it comes to wasting energy. This article spells it out.https://ww.electrek.co/2019/12/14/tesla-charges-faster-than-taycan-porsc...
Perhaps Porsche is indeed being super conservative and throttling back the battery and will loosen the strings a bit. However to counter that, Porsche being part of the VW group, surely would already have real world data on the LG batteries they are using in the Audi. E-Tron. Though Audi isn’t exactly bragging about the E-Tron either because it’s range is pathetic for the size of the battery they are using.
Que trollDarth in 3...2....
Not on this thread...please
It should be noted older, non M3 cars have seen reduced charging rates.
Much more important flaw for the Taycan is the lack of a SuC network comparable to Tesla's
How many times do you guys have to post the same crap? Again...
"@PBEndo, that’s an incredibly stupid article. Do we say that gas goes into a Prius faster than it goes into an SUV? No, of course we don’t. That article is not objective. It’s a completely biased premise and uses math disingenuously to support that bias."
You guys talk about wasting energy while all you can talk about with regard to Tesla performance is Ludicrous Launch Control and 0-60 times. Please pull your heads out for one minute. How much electricity--most of which comes from burning fossil fuels--has been wasted drag-racing, testing, and promoting Tesla 0-60 and 1/4 mile times? More than all the energy consumed by Taycan design and testing thus far, I'd assume.
oh, and the range sucks also
Charging speed is measured in miles per hour. Sooty you missed that.
@Daisy, um, no. It's measured in kW. You can convert that to miles per hour but that's very inaccurate because it has to take into account efficiency of the car which is highly variable per driving conditions. Sorry you missed that.
"When billing per minute, there are two tiers to account for changes in charging ***speeds***, called “tier 1” and “tier 2”.
-Tier 1 applies while cars are charging at or below 60 kW and tier 2 applies while cars are charging above 60 kW. Tier 1 is half the cost of tier 2.
Tier 1 also applies anytime your vehicle is sharing Supercharger power with another car."
@jimgla, amazing fanboy reply, as usual.
Nuke seems triggered by an article that counters Darth’s argument “but 800 volts” as the reason Taycan wins the Cannonball. Of course miles added per minute is the only metric that matters about a pit stop. It is standardized to reflect a level EPA playing field and alternative driving conditions will affect all cars in a similar manner.
Nuke is just defending his partner. Love is blind.
@BigHorn, certainly does not apply to cannonballs because nobody knows how these cars will perform when driven without regard to any speed laws. EPS does not test or standardize for that.
Physics informs us about drag and the impact of speed on efficiency. Not rocket science. Just science. Like AGW.
facts matter nuke
@Bighorn, and as in any scientific inquiry, we won't know until it's actually tested. You are making assumptions.
and you are not making assumptions about a car that nobody has?
Troll protocol -
Deny. Distract. Repeat.
Bighorn it would be great if you only talked science rather then insert misinformation as you often do.
pot, meet kettle
Refill times are unimportant in a race ... right.
@Daisy, of course “refill time” is important, and Taycan fills faster. It will empty faster also so we’ll see who wins in this tortoise vs hard competition. Will be fun! Calm down. It’s all good, as the kids say.
hare not hard
As has now been demonstrated, the Taycan fills up with miles slower than the Tesla. It also burns up a lot more energy and $$$s doing so. A maximum spend rate is not exactly a bragging point.
When you were trying to argue against the Eletrek article showing Tesla charges faster than the Taycan, you used words like “do we say gas goes in a Prius faster than other cars? Of course we don’t”
And now you say Porsche fills faster.
Decide what you want to say otherwise you will keep contradicting yourself.
Nuke: Taycan fills slower:https://electrek.co/2019/12/14/tesla-charges-faster-than-taycan-porsche-...
To charge at 350kW the Taycan with 800V system would require 437.5A charge current. The current CCS1 standard says maximum will be 400A, that gives a maximum charge as 320kW for a 800V system.
I am coming from a family of Porschophiles as we have owned several 911s including a Turbo and still to this day a 991.2 GT3. The Taycan would have been a perfect car but we have now decided not to buy because of 3 main factors: wide availability of DC fast charging networks in the Northeast US, lack of competitive autopilot-equivalent system, and the extremely uncompetitive range compared to Tesla.
I meant LACK of wide availability of DC fast charging networks.
Inconel the FSD and range are valid concerns. Fast DC availability however isn’t. At least not in SoCal. But maybe the Northeast is much different.
darth, He just said this:
inconel | December 14, 2019
I meant LACK of wide availability of DC fast charging networks.
What part of that did you not understand?
Worse, EA chargers appear to be limited to 350 amps. If you had a pack at 1000v, you can charge at 350 kW, but no such pack exists. At 800v x 350 amps = 280 kW - the max charging possible with EA chargers in a Taycan. My expectation is Taycan will always be limited to 270 kW, but I won't quibble if someday they can squeeze to 280 kW at EA chargers someday.
So Taycan might at a rate 8% more than Tesla's 250 kW, but we have no idea what the Taycan's taper curve is. It may be better than Tesla or far worse. It will take some independent testing to find out.
Even with this seeming slight advantage, it's clear from the awful efficiency, it just can't add miles of range as fast as any Tesla - really the only metric that matters.
@TeslaTap that BS. What will matter is how fast the charging session is completed. No one except the clowns here will care that your charge rate is 1000mph but you’re still charging while they are 15 to 20 minutes away having already hit 80 to 90% from 5%.
Darth, not going to happen because they charge SLOWER
you are really a contrary moron to keep posting your lies
That is the realization we always return to.
Porsche puffs specs that don’t result in material benefits.
Their boasts don’t matter. They’re illusive, and meaningless for real world usage.
Their deficiencies however, which they constantly downplay, do matter, materially.
Hence the disinformation campaign we see documented here.
Jim wow you're on a roll! Now that you're doing more than one sentence garbage troll post, I would love to hear you describe in your own words how it is a Taycan charging at ~270kW charges "slower" than a Tesla that cannot charge over 250kW. Go on, give it a shot and don't wait for Bighorn or other disingenuous posters to try and bail you out with taper curve strawmen nonsense.
did you read the article posted by the OP?
Either you didnt read it
or you are ignoring it
Everything you state is demonstrably false
@Jim I'm the reason they wrote the article FYI.
Jim strangely, you have yet to demonstrate anything I have written to be false. Should be easy right?
you havent been paying attention
Nobody cares how fast KWH can be loaded into the battery. What they care about is how fast miles can be loaded into the battery. The last-in-the-pack efficiency of the Taycan means that the miles accumulate slower.
Daisy how exactly do I load miles into a battery? If you've figured that out I think we have the next battery tech breakthrough!
More rhetorical bs from Darth to deflect the embarrassing truth.
If you know what well-to-wheel efficiency is, then you know what miles per minute of charge is.
Gross metrics cut away all the obfuscation of the bottom line -
“How long is the charge stop to go another 100 miles?”
That’s what matters.
Darth knows Tesla beats Taycan, and just keeps his shell game going, since his product can’t do the talking.
Due to the surprisingly poor efficiency of Porsche’s drive train -
For both range and charge rate, Taycan sucks relative to Tesla.
And Taycan’s well-to-wheel efficiency is much worse than Tesla, if you give a damn about the biosphere.
Which Darth definitely don’t.
Charging at EA in 15 to 20 min must really suck!
Sure does, when you have to go 44 mph to do it again soon.
When you waste your energy in a less efficient drivetrain, all the metrics suffer.
Agree when you only add 100 miles. That really sucks.
Yeah getting 100 miles back in less that 10 minutes, what a bummer!
Darth, where you drive, is distance measured by kWh’s? I didn’t think so. When I use a supercharger, I know/think about how many miles I need added to reach my next destination not kWh’s. So there is absolutely nothing wrong with the expression of adding miles to a battery. It’s a figure of speech. I often phrase it as adding “x” miles of range to the battery.