Alternative to FSD Upgrades

Alternative to FSD Upgrades

Since FSD owners of MCU1/AP2 vehicles still have no clear path to getting the HW3 upgrade so they can run the latest FSD "preview" software and no indication if/when they will get an upgrade, Tesla should strongly consider an alternative (that could also be applied to any vehicles that has AP2 or AP2.5).

Instead of Tesla spending money for hardware upgrades to these older vehicles (which would be in vehicles that are now several years old), Tesla should offer an alternative to encourage those customers who've already purchased FSD to instead trade-up for a new vehicle that has MCU2/HW3 already.

The upgrade option could be something like this...

If a vehicle has FSD purchased, and does not yet have the HW3 upgrade installed, instead of getting the hardware upgrades, Tesla would provide the following incentives to upgrade to a new Model S or X:

1. FSD purchase would transfer to the new vehicle
2. New vehicle would have FUSC (Free Unlimited SuperCharging)
3. FSD loyalty credit ($5000?) applied to the purchase
4. Transfer of remaining extended service or warranty

This could help boost S/X sales to existing customers, that would probably not purchase a new S/X in the next year or two. It would eliminate the need for Tesla to do hardware upgrades on these older vehicles. And it would immediately get the early FSD owners access to the latest FSD "preview" features, plus eliminate the growing gap between MCU1 and MCU2 features.

I requested the HW3 upgrade at a service appointment this week for our 2017 S (MCU1/AP2). Tesla's response was unacceptable - our VIN isn't on the list; Tesla will not notify customers when their VIN's are on the upgrade list; Tesla has no estimate what our vehicle will be eligible for the upgrade. Especially for Tesla's customers who purchase FSD years ago, they could do better to recognize the risk those customers took in committing to FSD before Tesla had any FSD functionality available...

EVRider | 15 februari 2020

Wishful thinking. :-) | 15 februari 2020

Probably but reasonable. | 15 februari 2020

@bp While you're at it, ask for a free Cybertruck. You're expectations see a bit out of proportion considering you've had the use of EAP features for a while now, about $5,000 in value. So you, like everyone else that bought FSD have maybe $2-3K in prepaid value that hasn't been realized yet. I like the idea of a transfer, but I just don't see it happening, especially giving you an extra $10K in value and services on top of the FSD transfer.

Tesla has stated HW3 will be available to HW2.0 cars when FSD is released. FSD is not released yet. Yes, there are a couple of trivial features people with HW3 have that we HW2.0 owners don't have. Not sure of the big value of being able to see traffic cones in the display. Actually quite a few HW2.5 owners don't' have HW3 yet either.

bp | 16 februari 2020

If Tesla is committed to upgrading MCU1/AP2 vehicles to hardware that will support FSD, they should at least be able to confirm that in writing to those customers...

Tweets or comments by Musk are not Tesla official policy, and have often been wrong, when referring to future changes.

akgolf | 16 februari 2020

I don’t have a Tesla yet, but if I did I would want to wait.

You’re currently guaranteed to be upgraded to a CPU that will support FSD. The early adopters that get the new CPU may miss out on a later version that might be capable of additional features. I doubt the next version is the last.

EVRider | 16 februari 2020

@akgolf: That will always be true no matter when you buy the car, so you gain nothing by waiting.

bp | 17 februari 2020

"guaranteed to be upgraded to a CPU that will support FSD"

Actually, Tesla has never officially stated that MCU1/AP2 owners are guaranteed to get a hardware upgrade. There's nothing in the purchase agreement or vehicle warranty. Tesla hasn't made any official statements on their website nor provided us anything in writing. Neither have we heard anything verbally (though statements by Tesla gallery, store and service center staff are not official statements, and often have proven incorrect).

The only statements about the upgrade has come from unofficial comments by Musk - and since he's made quite a few statements that have since not been fulfilled, his tweets or verbal comments also can't be considered as official Tesla statements or commitments.

When MCU1/AP2 vehicles were purchased, Tesla stated on their website that all vehicles had hardware capable of FSD, contingent upon software validation and regulatory approval. But that statement isn't binding, because the purchase agreement states that only terms in that agreement are binding, and any statements by Tesla in marketing or elsewhere are non-binding.

As a long time Tesla customer (Tesla owner for over 7 years), I'm confident Tesla will (eventually) provide a path to FSD for MCU1/AP2/FSD owners. Though if this requires additional engineering work and an expensive and time-consuming upgrade in service centers, Tesla (and the affected customers) may be better off in trading-up to a newer HW3 vehicle than investing resources to upgrade 3 year old vehicles... (Which represents a shrinking % of Tesla vehicles).

EVRider | 17 februari 2020

@bp: I would consider anything Elon says on the quarterly earnings call to be official statements, and he’s stated there and elsewhere that everyone who purchased FSD will get a computer upgrade, if FSD functionality requires the new computer. I think the only way Tesla can get out of that commitment is to make FSD work on the older hardware, which seems unlikely to happen.

bp | 18 februari 2020

Do you know on which quarterly earnings call Musk stated there would be a hardware upgrade provided for MCU1/AP2 vehicles - and if this would be for free for those who haven already purchased FSD?

Techy James | 18 februari 2020 I don't think it is unreasonable for Tesla for those with the older Hardware be offered option to get Free FSD on a trade in if they purchased FSD with the previous car. If they paid for Enhanced AP (5K at time of purchase) plus the FSD future upgrade (3K at time of purchase) they effective paid at least 8K for what is now AP Free plus FSD 7K. So they actually paid more for there assurance to get FSD when it was available.
Since they are obviously talking Model S and X, I would agree with point 1 of getting FSD if they trade their S/X for a new one. Now unless they changed it again, I believe Point 2 Free Supercharging already is offered on the S/X.
Now option 3 is wishful thinking. And since they don't offer these extended service plans on Vehicles there is nothing to transfer so that would be nothing for option. Since the time that Tesla had offered the Extended Service Agreements, much of the service items have been removed from suggested service of the Model S and X.
As for this removing the requirement for Tesla to upgrade these hardware items, I have to disagree, if the new owner buying the used vehicle would want the FSD, then Tesla would still need to upgrade these vehicles. So that final paragraph is not valid.
@bp when I paid for FSD it did say that any future hardware upgrade required to make FSD a reality would be included. Now I also had the hardware 2.5 which was recently upgraded to FSD 1.0 Hardware so I can't attest to MCU1/AP2 systems.

EVRider | 18 februari 2020

@bp: What I've heard Elon say, more than once, is that everyone who paid for FSD would get an upgrade to HW3 for free. He didn't qualify that by saying the upgrade was only for certain hardware configurations, so I don't think it matters that he didn't specifically call out HW2 cars. "Everyone who pad for FSD" seems pretty clear to me.

bp | 20 februari 2020

Can someone reference a statement by Musk during an earnings call about providing "Every one who has paid for FSD will get free hardware upgrades" or that specifically he state specifically that MCU1/AP2 vehicles would get the free FSD hardware upgrades?

Verbal statements made on earnings calls should be viewed as official. But other statements Musk has made by tweets or social media are probably not going to be official statements, since he has made many statements that have proven to be untrue (such as upgrades for MCU1 to MCU2 or promising screen sharing years ago - which we still don't have).

I have been a long time Tesla owner and supporter, so my comments are not complaints, only suggestions of how Tesla could better handle this situation.

We paid $8K for EAP/FSD for our 2017 S 100D with MCU1/AP2 - so allowing owners to transfer FSD to a new vehicle (which now costs $7K with EAP standard) seems reasonable.

FUSC is currently available for new S/X - so providing that also wouldn't cost Tesla anything.

And Tesla could afford to provide a credit ($5000?) for a new vehicle purchase, since it will cost Tesla parts and labor to upgrade the older MCU1/AP2 vehicles - so this also wouldn't cost Tesla anything.

Plus, S/X sales have slowed since introduction of Model 3 and could take another hit with Model Y, so encouraging current owners who were early adopters of FSD to purchase a new S/X would also be a positive for Tesla.

Another factor to consider, owners of these older vehicles took a 15% hit on resale value a year ago when Tesla did an across-the-board price reduction on S/X - and while the above wouldn't close the gap on what I estimated was a $10K immediate loss in the value of our S, providing us a quick path to get a vehicle that would fully support the latest software (including FSD) would be a good marketing move.

We aren't planning to replace our 2017 S for another 3-4 years, however if Tesla provided us an offer to buy a replacement with incentives similar to the above, it would be very tempting to do that - and stop waiting for Tesla to figure how to get us access to the FSD preview features Tesla is rolling out now...

SO | 20 februari 2020 | 20 februari 2020

Mere conjecture as no source was named. Opinion, like darth

andy.connor.e | 20 februari 2020

people still talking about resale value? pretty amazing to me that people who buy brand new cars consider that something of significance. Loses almost 20% of its sticker value in the first year.

SO | 20 februari 2020

Please don’t compare me to Darth.

andy.connor.e | 20 februari 2020

i think grins was referring to @bp

bp | 21 februari 2020

Until early last year, Tesla had maintained roughly the same price point for S/X since S was introduced in mid-2014 (except for the price increase when AP was introduced and AP/EAP/FSD were added to the vehicle purchase). As Tesla continued to add new features and increase range, the non-performance models kept roughly the same base price.

And based on the trade-in of our 2012 for our 2017 S, S/X appeared to depreciate at about the same rate as our previous luxury ICEs at around 2% per month.

That was until last year, when Tesla reduced the prices of S/X by 15%, which will have an impact on resale value for vehicles purchased prior to 2019. And that price decrease shouldn't have been a complete surprise, since most new technology products see price reductions as the technology matures. What had been surprising was how Tesla had been able to add new features/range each year (except for AP) without raising prices.

But the fact remains that owners who purchased S/X before last year will take a hit when they trade in or sell their vehicles.

As for the FSD upgrades, despite being told by our local Service Center that Tesla would NOT notify owners where their vehicles were eligible for the FSD upgrade - yesterday I received an e-mail that Tesla was ready to install the HW3 processor in our 2018 X (MCU2/AP2.5) - and that upgrade has been scheduled for mobile service next Monday.

The local service center couldn't provide any insight on if/when they plan to upgrade our 2017 S (MCU1/AP2). At least we'll be able to do a side-by-side comparison to see what we FSD capabilities we're missing on our S. | 21 februari 2020

@SO - opinion of the contributor to TMC, Krash, not you.