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My 2 week look back at my new Model S

My 2 week look back at my new Model S

First let me start by sayong thst I have never spent over $100k on a car before. My last vehicle purchased is a 2014 CTS Vsport which cost me $60k. I did not even upgrade to the ACC functions because I like to actually drive.

When I get in the car if it's raining my windshield wipers go on by themselves. If it rains faster they go faster,if it stops they stop. At night my headlights come on and if no other car is coming towards us the high beams go on, if another car comes towards me automatically highbeams turn off. I have deers around my home and I need the lighting because there is nothing like a deer running out of nowhere into you. Been there and done that with a deer ending up on the windshield.

When I bought the car the window sticker showed MPG from 16/24. When I look at my computer it shows over the past 30k miles that I am getting 20mpg. Isn't is refreshing to get the range you expected?

Anyway not to hash all the AP 2.0 functions I was promised and have not been delivered it's the simple things like automatic wipers, auto headlights, range that falls way short than displayed, charging that takes longer than expected, and now I am finding quality control issues like rattles and a driver side mirror that does not open fully.

I pre-heaTed my cabin for around 15 minutes while it was around 20 degrees and I lost like 10 miles. I feel stuff like this should have been disclosed and I should not have to find and research this stuff after the fact, they should make things clearer.

I took possession with 2.3 miles on the car. What does this tell me? It tells me quality checking is not being done correcty and they are rushing cars out.

Flame if you want but this is just one owners opinion. I hope things get better and I hope I get the features I was promised. Closest service center is over an hour away so going back and forth for every issue will be a pain so I am waiting a few weeks to see what else might crop up so hopefully I can take care of all issues at the same time.

SO | 7 januari 2017

Perhaps you can return the car if you don't like it.

amareshvanga | 7 januari 2017

Home work is very important so that you know what exactly you are getting in to.
I knew that cold weather takes a toll on battery-on speed,on amount of miles and charge
i knew that tech is there but is not going to be perfect
For me the most important factor in buying this car is not for the tech or things that are automated etc.. It was for the performance and ride quality.In this department it never dissappointed.Hence i was very happy with my purchases.Few things do pop up here and there with tech etc.. but nothing major and this is not a factor for me.
Never had issues with quality control piece though

SomeJoe7777 | 7 januari 2017

>> "First let me start by sayong thst I have never spent over $100k on a car before."

>> "I should not have to find and research this stuff "

????

Maybe not doing any research before spending $100K isn't the best strategy?

Silver2K | 7 januari 2017

This is a perfectly good example to what's going on with the OP
https://youtu.be/oHg5SJYRHA0?t=2

Bighorn | 7 januari 2017

#dimbulb

GHammer | 7 januari 2017

I'm sorry you weren't educated into some of the challenges that full EV ownership entails. It is a different technology than an ICE and it is still in many ways in it's infancy. Owners that receive their cars in winter are especially not prepared for these challenges, without waste heat from the engine, all heat needs to be generated from the battery hence reduced range. Li-ion batteries are damaged if they are charged too fast when cold. We really are now trying to educate you on some of these challenges but you seem intent on just being angry that Tesla mislead you. You may call us fanboys but most of us are long time car owners (no stock for me) and have educated ourselves on the use of our vehicles and love them. Bighorn hold the world record for number of Superchargers charged at so he knows a thing or two. I'm no slouch having been to over over 50 and driven thousands of miles.

It seems early adopters were more willing to educated themselves beforehand about ownership while new owners are expecting Tesla to give them seminars on EV ownership. Tesla has had a huge batch of faulty mirrors and there is no excuse for that but they will make it good. The features advertised will come.

Almost two years of ownership, two Model S's, two total visits to the service center, many thousands of miles driven on Supercharges, many smiles. I hope someday you can join us.

NKYTA | 7 januari 2017

OP has finally hit the critical limit for me.

bah

SamO | 7 januari 2017

Tesla is a thinking person's car. Not all are fit for ownership.

evaandmarty | 7 januari 2017

well said
@Hammer

Bighorn | 7 januari 2017

Thing is I gave him my master class on supercharging and he's still dumb as nails.

barrykmd | 7 januari 2017

BH - I'm glad you didn't say "dumb as rivets."

carlk | 7 januari 2017

It's a thinking person's car but Tesla has tried the hardest to make the operation fool proof. Although once in a while you still see some fools below Tesla's benchmark fool to show up.

Bighorn | 7 januari 2017

@barry
I'm not that heartless.

kevin | 7 januari 2017

There are lots of things one takes for granted in a gasoline car because one has been driving them for years. These are not things that the manufacturer discloses when you buy a car, but you've picked them up here and there. The fact that an electric car uses electricity to heat the cabin is one of those things that you pick up. It's not something a manufacturer makes a big point of when describing the features of the car. The gas car manufacturers don't make a big deal that the heater doesn't work until the engine warms up either.

As for manufacturing defects, those just need to be fixed, and Tesla has a good reputation for fixing them. So take your car back and get whatever needs to be fixed fixed.

Just don't expect much sympathy over your having to wait a few weeks for Autopilot, when folks here waited a year for it.

SeaDoc | 7 januari 2017

Well, I've had my S for two weeks and love it more every day. A car that adds features and grows with me as the years go by. I feel like a kid again watching my favorite show, the jetsons! Truly a car of the future, now...

flight505 | 7 januari 2017

You worried about cabin heat? Where's your sense of adventure? You got yourself a fiery horse with the speed of light. Come on, let's ride!!!

ICE cars are antiques!!!

TesMD | 7 januari 2017

@tommilone
I am not sure if this was mentioned by anyone else while they were being flamed but the whole idea is preheating the cabin is for your car to be plugged in while you warm up the battery so you dont lose range! I may absolutely be wrong on this because I live in Cali in condo and don't have my own charger so never have looked into preheating, but You may want to search that and learn more about the car as others have said.

SbMD | 7 januari 2017

@tommilone - sorry that there are some issues, with a rattle and difficulty with a mirror. Shouldn't be a problem to fix, I suspect. Having owned a number of cars from different ICE manufacturers in the past, I can tell you from personal experience that sometimes cars will have issues, even brand new, and even from luxury brands. Tesla should and will fix them. Like others, I found your post a bit curious:

"When I bought the car the window sticker showed MPG from 16/24. When I look at my computer it shows over the past 30k miles that I am getting 20mpg. Isn't is refreshing to get the range you expected?"

Do you understand that all cars will perform at varying levels depending on driving habit, weather conditions, etc? That includes your past Cadillac. Indeed, some things will affect ICE cars's MPG more than BEVs eMPG, and vice versa. Under certain conditions you will get better or worse than EPA range in all cars. Welcome to driving.

"I pre-heaTed my cabin for around 15 minutes while it was around 20 degrees and I lost like 10 miles. I feel stuff like this should have been disclosed and I should not have to find and research this stuff after the fact, they should make things clearer."

No, you didn't lose 10 miles, but lost charge. Just like you would have lost gas in an ICE. How you drive will affect the actual miles you get, along with the state of charge (SOC). Heating is notoriously energy inefficient in all types of cars. This can be adjusted to a degree with some of the settings in your Tesla. Welcome to driving, again.

"I took possession with 2.3 miles on the car. What does this tell me? It tells me quality checking is not being done correcty and they are rushing cars out."

Your car should have been charged, no doubt. That's pretty minor, in the grand scheme of things, and is not what fits the definition of "Quality Control". If you are not familiar with how that term is used, then don't use it and please avoid overstating. On a larger level, you would cringe at the things that people forget at ICE dealerships as well. Ask me how I know.

"Flame if you want but this is just one owners opinion."

FWIW, I am not flaming you by my post. Your post suggests that you have 2 issues that need to be addressed, and IMO I agree that they should be addressed. However, these aren't as damning as you would have people believe, which is reinforced when looking at the larger landscape of what happens with other automakers/dealers. We would all love to have perfection at all times. Companies should strive for this, but it isn't realistic to have it. Show me the business that achieves 100% perfection, because everyone should invest every dollar they have in that business.

As for the other issues, you have blown them out of proportion, as pointed out above.

Gibson27 | 7 januari 2017

I do not mean to be a "smart Alec", but curiously, how did you think the cabin was going to heat up without losing range? I currently own a Genesis and use the remote start feature in extreme cold weather all the time. You know what? That burns gas. When I let the car run for 10 minutes while preheating, I am sure that I use 10 miles of "range" as well. Of course, I never really check to see how much gas I burn doing so because the benefit of a warm car when it is below zero, outweighs the nominal expense of burning the gas to do so.

The good news about the Tesla using 10 miles of range to preheat the cabin is that every morning when you wake up, your car is fully charged (or at least to the level of charge that you desire) and ready to go. No ICE car that I know of does that.

Every car has it's pluses and minuses. A Tesla is no exception to that rule. When people first start using any revolutionary product, that completely changes the entire way we thought about doing things, there is going to be a learning curve and growing pains. In my humble opinion, Tesla has done a tremendous job of helping people make the transition from ICE to electric. In fact, by most counts (consumer reports, owner satisfaction numbers, etc...) they have already built a better car. And the amazing thing is, your car will get better overnight with updates that happen while you sleep. That in and of itself is amazing. That being said, a Tesla is not for everyone, at least not right now.

I am sorry that your growing pains have been more than others have experienced, or at least are willing to tolerate. Anyone that spends the kind of money that you did, should be happy with their purchase. And, based upon the myriad of posts that you written on this board in a short period of time about your recent purchase, you are clearly not happy with the car. That is unfortunate. I am not sure that you have many options at this point that do not involve losing a fair amount of money on your purchase.

The good news for you is that your Tesla should get better with time. Many of your concerns may be corrected in the (near?) future. And quite frankly, I hope they are. I am not aware of any other car that can change so dramatically overnight by adding features and making the whole experience better.

My Model S should be ready for pickup the first week of February. Hopefully, AP 2.0 will be at least on par with AP 1.0 if not better by that time. Hopefully, 8.1 software will be released and working well by that time. If it isn't, will I be disappointed? Sure, I will. But, in the interim, I have little doubt that I will thoroughly enjoy driving a revolutionary car.

Again, I hope that you are ultimately happy with your purchase, and sooner rather than later. You spent a great deal of your hard earned money.

Please keep in mind that Tesla must be doing something right. They have the whole car industry nervous. There is a reason every car company is now desperately trying to offer a competitive product. And offer driver assist options like Auto Pilot. They are all playing catch up. Just think, you already own the leader.

Please note that this post is not in any way meant to be an attack. You have an absolute right to be happy with your purchase. Maybe just look at it from a slightly different perspective? Yes, you purchased a "car" as we define it. But in reality, you purchased so much more. Congratulations on being one of the lucky few.

Best of luck to you in 2017.

tes-s | 7 januari 2017

Glad to hear you are enjoying the car!

seirfe | 7 januari 2017

I got mine exactly two weeks ago, too. There have been a few issues for me as well (drivers side mirror does not extend fully about 30% of the time -- which I got replaced, but still have the problem. Tech said there must be an issue with the current version -- "e"). This, too, is my first $100k+ car and it was raining here just this week and I miss the automatic wipers and other standard features most cars have these days.

That said...this is the BEST car I have ever driven. I absolutely love it - from the drive feel to the sound system to the acceleration to the extremely quiet cabin. Like a kid at Christmas, I check the car every day for the upcoming AP2 update and am disappointed when it's not here. But, I know it will come and I would rather most of the issues be worked out before they flip the switch.

As an aside: I ordered a 90D...the emblem on the back of my car says "P90D", which they don't even make today...my tech was a little perplexed at that one! Should have been caught at the factory. I chalk it up to the year-end rush to finish production on a ton of vehicles, but odd nonetheless.

Conan_the_Contrarian | 7 januari 2017

So everyone assumes that new owners are so highly educated like the rest of us who have been following the company and the cars for years. And owning the cars for years.

But now more and more people are buying these cars. Very few have a realistic understanding of what they're getting into. And the constant hyperbole on the various message boards doesn't help potential new owners get a realistic understanding. And the Tesla sales, marketing, and advertising certainly doesn't give a realistic outlook either. As more and more "uneducated" people buy these cars, be prepared for a flood of disappointment.

Before buying, many people should understand everything, including these:

1. the range is much worse than you think or than anyone claims;

2. the charging times are much longer than you think or than anyone claims;

3. long-distance travel takes much more time than you think, requires a fixed route, often precludes the most direct route, and is very annoying;

4. it is not a self-driving car; not even close.

5. "autopilot" is merely a term that describes basic safety and convenience features that every other car has, except for auto-steering and lane-changing activated by a turn-signal, which themselves aren't miraculous and unique inventions, but just things that other manufacturers aren't willing yet to put into their cars for liability reasons;

6. Tesla service is terrible in many locations; prepare for 6-8 week wait times just to get your car into the shop, and they keep your car much longer than would seem necessary based on the work they're doing;

7. Tesla parts take forever to get to the "certified shops"; prepare to not have your car for a month or two or three if you have an accident.

8. Tesla will almost never give you a Tesla loaner, so don't believe the sales people when they tell you this.

9. the build quality of the cars is poor; if you don't have any manufacturing flaws, then you're lucky;

10. if you have PxxL cars, then Tesla will steal the P and L functionality later on if you use it "too much," whatever that means.

11. These cars might be fast 0-60, but they're not very fast after that. And, on anything more than a 300-mile drive, they're the slowest cars in the world.

12. The internet browser is a useless gimmick.

13. The navigation system is terrible. Really bad. Glitchy. But worst of all is the route selection. It chooses terrible route. And, even if you overrule the poor route selection 1,000 times, the car never "learns."

14. The stereo system is glitchy.

15. There's no amazing and unique technology.

16. It's a car. Only a car. Tesla is a company. Only a company. They car and the company both have many flaws and weaknesses. Nothing miraculous here.

17. Tesla doesn't have a dealer network because Tesla is the dealer network and you're dealing with all the same dealer crap still.

18. The interior really sucks.

19. The sun visors don't even have lights.

20. Blind-spot warning doesn't exist for all practical purposes.

So there are 20 things people should know before buying. There are more things too, but these are the 20 things that came immediately to my mind. Yes, there are also good things too. But I don't mention them here because they're covered almost exclusively by people posting on forums generally.

Let's be realistic about what people are getting. Everyone conceals the real problems or, even better, comically spins the real problems into huge advantages, and then everyone expects no new owners to be disappointed. If you care about this company, then you should be realistic and quit the hyperbole and the merciless attacks and childish name-calling on disappointed new owners. Whose fault is it that they're disappointed? You blame them. I blame the hyperbole from current owners and the company. Sorry, but go ahead and flame away.

Conan_the_Contrarian | 7 januari 2017

I'll add this:

21. AP2 cars are far worse than AP1 cars. And nobody has any idea when they'll even be as good. Maybe tomorrow. Maybe a year from now. Maybe never.

SO | 7 januari 2017

@conan - you missed coathooks.

Why did you purchase a Tesla? Do you regret that decision?

SbMD | 7 januari 2017

Quarterly earnings on the horizon, so the trolls come out.
Thanks for showing your true intent for being here, @Conan.
In order of your criticisms:

1-11 - wrong
12 - Who cares; no one should be driving and surfing the internet. No other car has it. Glass half-empty comment by @Conan
13 - wrong
14 - the EQ has an issue with the last update, and not the whole system
15 - really wrong
16 - pointless statement
17 - wrong on many levels
18 - wrong
19 - not important
20 - wrong
21 - wrong

rozanne2 | 7 januari 2017

@tommilone don't feel bad being chastised by old hand owners. Like you, I am new to the Tesla world and the forum. I think your frustration is similar to mine in that there has been very poor communication and expectation management that is flowing from the top. We, too, were taken by surprise of lacking even basic safety functions like cruise, auto wipers, adjusting headlights. Yes...the car is fun to drive and I am getting more comfortable with ev estimates on the battery. However, until I have the safety features I came to rely on for long trips and inclimate weather I'll stick with my Lexus and patiently wait for the basic software uploads.

Conan_the_Contrarian | 7 januari 2017

SO_S90D,

Thanks for pointing out my oversight on the coat hooks.

You're asking me to go back some time in my thinking when I bought the car. First, I read the forums extensively, and the hyperbolic praise on every single topic (at least back then) fooled me to some degree. I thought the car must be perfect in every way, as established by all owner testimonials. That was reinforced by the sales people. And I thought any car that costs well over $100k must be really good, which has been my experience with other cars. Second, I didn't want to deal with oil changes and gas stations as a matter of time-saving and convenience (not for perceived moral reasons). Third, I thought that the car would be functionally like my other cars or better as a practical matter in every way. Fourth, I thought that Tesla had some huge technological advantage over other cars.

There might have been other reasons, but I don't remember now. But I was just buying a car. I wasn't on some kind of moral crusade to save the world, to support a company that is saving the world, to kill fossil fuel companies, or to save American jobs. I wanted a really good car, which is what I always want when buying a car.

Of course, the car hasn't perfectly lived up to my expectations. But, as a daily local car, it's totally fine. I feel fortunate that my car is better than so many others, and that I haven't had any major problems. And, if I get convinced that AP2 actually works, and if I get convinced that the manufacturing quality is good, then I'm prepared to upgrade to a P100D (or at least I was before this counter scandal got exposed, which is making me ambivalent and maybe even reluctant). I will (or was going to) upgrade not because I think it's the greatest and safest car ever built. I don't believe that. But because I'm now accustomed to it, and it's good enough for me, and inertia takes over for me once I've found something that's good enough because I'm maybe too lazy.

I'm trying to do is make sure that nobody is deceived about the car's weaknesses or the company's weaknesses. They exist. And I think those weaknesses are largely intolerable for most people who are spending $100k or more on a car. This isn't the greatest car ever built for many (and I'd say most) people. As everyone has said here, potential owners should know what they're getting into when buying this car so that they're not disappointed and angry at the car and the company. I agree with that. But I also think that current owners should be perfectly realistic about what potential owners are getting. So I leave it to everyone else to say all of the miraculously great qualities this car has and to spin every terrible problem (for most people) into something really great, and meanwhile I'm left largely alone to point out the underlying reality.

Thanks for your rational response. I was expecting walls of hatred, criticism, and personal attacks.

Conan_the_Contrarian | 7 januari 2017

SbMD, you wrote, "Quarterly earnings on the horizon, so the trolls come out.
Thanks for showing your true intent for being here, @Conan."

All I can say is hilariously childish and wrong and so lacking in intellectual substance. OK, wait, you've caught me. I care so much about quarterly earnings. And I can affect quarterly earnings by posting here. And I can affect the stock price by giving a realistic assessment of the car. Really brilliant stuff.

But it does show us your thought process. Presumably, you are an investor, and you do think in these terms. Sorry to break it to you, but nothing you post here will have any impact on quarterly earnings or the stock price, notwithstanding your delusions of grandeur.

SbMD | 7 januari 2017

@Conan - actually, I feel that anyone posting negatives here has no relevance to quarterly earnings. But some people like you think it does, or do so trying to spread FUD to potential owners with misinformation and bias.

You can hurl insults all you want. Pointless. You know nothing about the people who post here, but your posts show exactly what you are up to.

croman | 7 januari 2017

I got my car two weeks ago and other than not having safety features activated, I love it. I had an EV for three years so my education was more focused and I got quickly accustomed to my car. I love driving it and I love the way it looks. While I do think Tesla is horrible with communication my DS was great and the highland park Tesla location has been top notch. It was also my first 100k car and it was really the only one I would've considered at this time. I just have to wait for Tesla to deliver and adjust my expectations that they will act as they say which is the most unfortunate thing since I love the car and the company in the abstract. I think most of Ops gripes are due to self acknowledged lack of familiarity and assumptions that an electric car is somehow similar to an ice. There are positives he likely has discovered but fails to acknowledge those. I know I can't stand being in an ice much less driving one...Yuck.

Conan_the_Contrarian | 7 januari 2017

SbMD, you are really paranoid. You should get that checked out. Perhaps you have something intelligent to say or refute about the substance of my post? Apparently not.

croman | 7 januari 2017

I also think many posters are unreasonably harsh in their apologies for Tesla. Tesla has to be a big boy company and staunch their own self inflicted wounds and blaming the customer results in a dead company that had great promise. The model three cannot be sold how I was sold my S. I spoke to another buyer when I picked up my car and they didn't know anything about cold weather effects either and this is Chicago. It's currently a balmy 15F. The sales person said nothing as I tried to help clear up their expectations about range and how heating a car further drains your energy resources. I suggested they warm up the car while still plugged in because it warms both the battery and the car without taking from your pool of energy and the sales person got glassy eyed. It was pathetic. They are creating sales and customers who will but elsewhere when they can.

TesMD | 7 januari 2017

@Conan
I am not a fanboi of Tesla althought I absolutely love my car but some of your points/issues are absolutely ridiculous and so far from truth.

Range is as expected the same way an ICE car range would vary with driving habits.
Charging is pretty much as fast as advertised but obviously different conditions could affect the rate and you should have known this before buying such expensive car.

some of your points may valid such as wait time for service but that is for non essential service.

In conclusion, no one forced you to buy the car and if you are not happy with your purchase, you can always sell your car and buy a MB, BMW or whatever else you feel would be a better car for you. Tesla is not for everyone and that is ok. Not sure why you would purchase a car with so many flaws because I certainly did my research before leasing my car and I was not even buying but that is another discussion.

Bill_75D | 7 januari 2017

Can we pause this thread for a while? I just ran out of popcorn and need to go-to the store.

Conan_the_Contrarian | 7 januari 2017

croman, thanks for sharing your honest and realistic opinions and experiences.

SbMD will now quickly and vehemently accuse you of being motivated by the strangest and most malicious things.

Silver2K | 7 januari 2017

if some asshole complains about coat hooks, then he/she/they is/are completely brainless!!

conan, you're list was written by a dumbass! was it you or did you copy and paste it?

GHammer | 7 januari 2017

I like how one persons attitude, lifestyle and experience contribute to making what they believe to be blanked "truths"

So here's mine

1. much worse? no it varies based on circumstance, just like an ICE. I would say it goes from moderately worse in very cold weather to right on in hot.
2. Once again, charging takes as long as does based on circumstance. All of my 3000 mile summer trip was just as advertised. Cold can be an issue.
3. Not my experience at all in about 10,000 of road trips all over the west. It depend where you live and where you drive.
4. AP1 was never advertised to be, we'll see about AP2
5. "every other car has"? none of mine have.
6. Not my experience, wait time same as my Audi, they have always delivered the car back when they said.
7. Same thing happened with my "exotic" Mada3
8. I have always gotten a Tesla loaner, even had my choice of which one.
9. Guess I'm lucky, twice
10. NA
11. Once again, it depends on your driving style. I'm done with the days of non-stop driving. If time is an issue, I fly.
12. Not useless, there are several very good Tesla specific sites made for the browser. General web surfing does leave something to be desired but I'd rather grab my tablet on the road anyway.
13 Never had a problem with it after setting the traffic reroute time to 10 minutes.
14. There have been glitches of various types through software versions but none serious.
15. OK, go out and buy another car with 200 mile range, controlled by a single large touchscreen that charges with up to 120KW. Yea, not unique.
16 OK you are right here, that's why I wonder why everybody looses their shit over the above 15 things.
17 I have dealt with none of the "Dealer Crap" with Tesla. I ordered it on line, no one tried to sell me rustproofing, I spent an hour to pick up my first one and 15 minutes with the second. I spend 4 hours at the dealer buying my Audi and I payed cash. Of the couple of warrenty things I had were taken care of no questions asked in the first year scheduled maintenance.
18. Same as my Audi.
19. BFD
20. It didn't on my Audi either, there were so many false alarms that it made it useless. Could it be better, sure. so what, I still wouldn't trust it

SbMD | 7 januari 2017

Nope, @Conan. @TesMD is an actual owner, unlike you, and has made many balanced contributions to this Forum.

You clearly wish to hurl insults at me for calling you out, @Conan.

Silver2K | 7 januari 2017

croman, sorry you were misinformed by sales.
They actually know little and it is the people in this forum that you should put questions to.

SbMD | 7 januari 2017

Oops... thought you were referring to @TesMD, @Conan. My error.
@croman made some good observations, which are more balanced than yours.

Customers shouldn't be blamed, but customers should understand the product that they buy in order to have the best experience. Now, if someone doesn't get adequate information, then the Tesla Delivery Specialist should own up to that and Tesla should also learn about this to improve their process. @croman, in my opinion, hopefully sent that feedback to Tesla when they got their satisfaction survey.

Similarly, people should take responsibility for understanding their car. It is no different if you are buying a Tesla, MB, GM, or whatever.

Conan_the_Contrarian | 7 januari 2017

TesMD (lots of doctors here, apparently): "Ridiculous and far from the truth"?

"Range is as expected the same way an ICE car range would vary with driving habits."

Range is advertised at something between 225 miles and 310 miles, depending on which model. Those "rated ranges" never happen in real world conditions. You know this for a fact, and yet you claim it's ridiculous and far from the truth. What's your motivation?

"Charging is pretty much as fast as advertised but obviously different conditions could affect the rate and you should have known this before buying such expensive car."

You know that some places required wait times just to charge. You also know that superchargers often don't give the advertised charging rate. For example, if anyone else is in the next stall. Some TMC threads claim that many chargers are permanently throttled down. And, if the logistics of a particular trip require a full charge from something reasonably low, then you're going to be waiting a very long time. And the point is that trips take much longer than anyone expects because of the range limitations and because of the need to charge. Sure, if you have perfectly spaced superchargers, then maybe you stop every could of hours for 20 minutes. If not, then you're stopping for what? 60 minutes for every 3-4 hours of driving?

"some of your points may valid such as wait time for service but that is for non essential service."

Thanks for the concession. But your definition of "non-essential" is much broader than mine, and I'd guess much broader than most people.

"In conclusion, no one forced you to buy the car and if you are not happy with your purchase, you can always sell your car and buy a MB, BMW or whatever else you feel would be a better car for you."

Never said anything like this. I've said the car has many weaknesses that people either conceal or spin into some kind of great advantage.

"Tesla is not for everyone and that is ok."

Exactly my point. So let's be realistic about the car so that people can figure out whether Tesla is for them before they spend $100k and then get furious at the company, blame the company, and maybe sue the company.

"Not sure why you would purchase a car with so many flaws because I certainly did my research before leasing my car and I was not even buying but that is another discussion."

Glad you did your research and that you were able to lease. Reminds me of another point that I'd want potential buyers to know:

23. Repair costs are astronomically high. Unbelievably high. Like two door handles cost $2,600. Seemingly minor body damage is a $10,000 or more problem. One guy showed pictures of his scraped and dented door and fender, and his repair bill was $36,000. More than the cost of a brand new Model 3. Nobody knows how much a battery/drive train might cost. Or at least I don't.

24. Based on these repair costs, the an out-of-warranty Tesla is likely to have much less resale value than most people think.

tes-s | 7 januari 2017

The car is not for everyone. Good thing - they couldn't make enough.

Sometimes people buy a car that is just not the right vehicle for them. It happens.

Doesn't mean they are a bad person, nor does it mean it is a bad car. Just not a good fit.

croman | 7 januari 2017

I definitely gave detailed feedback to Tesla on my experience and what I observed. I hope they succeed. My purchase links me with them. I believe these are growing pains but cannot be glossed over. That being said I'm not excusing customers from doing their due diligence. It's a 100k purchase and it's clearly not like most options on the market. Some effort is needed but customers have a right to expect honest disclosure too. While I found forum members to be a great resource, in particular silver and especially ckcland2, I think we are in the vast minority and most customers might be innocently misled by inept sales staff looking to meet sales quotas and harming Tesla long term for their short term gain. Time to add to the organisation's customer outreach.

Conan_the_Contrarian | 7 januari 2017

tes-s,

Exactly right. That's what is so troubling about these boards. They can be very useful and informative, but new owners and potential owners must first wade through tons of spin (which is hard for them to recognize as spin). And then, if they have the temerity and audacity to make complaints, they suffer the most vicious abuses, insults, criticisms, condemnations, and attacks.

As you said, they are not bad people. They are not stupid people. They are not malicious people. They aren't trying to destroy quarterly earnings. They aren't trying to destroy the stock price.

They are ordinary, good, successful, and intelligent people. They have honest questions, concerns, and criticisms. They want to discuss them. They deserve honest and rational answers. But instead they're met with the Tesla mob surrounding them with torches and pitchforks.

Thanks for your comment.

croman | 7 januari 2017

Repair issues are a concern Tesla needs to address but I'm not sure that's something that needs to be disclosed to a potential buyer. I'm thinking less nuanced but I think Conan's overall message that Tesla needs to front some common ownership gripes is a good idea with the 3 coming up. A lot of these gripes come from ice to EV transition and will be much more severe on a mass market car.

SbMD | 7 januari 2017

@Conan - nice try to spin things by other people to your "perspective". Sure, you will turn right around and say that I am trying to "spin your spin", which isn't true. Your points 1-22 are already vapor points, so let's look at your latest:

23 - expensive cars often have higher repair costs, including Lexus, MB, etc, etc. People also buy insurance for their cars to help with this, which I hope is not new information for you, @conan.

A lot of this has to do with the use of aluminum parts, which has advantages over steel, but the currently the cost of fixing aluminum cars is higher than steel due to the specialized expertise and equipment needed. This will continue to drop as the industry shifts in this direction and more body shops are trained in aluminum repairs. Please see repairs for the Ford F-150, for another example of where repair expenses are higher.

24 - wrong.

JeffreyR | 7 januari 2017

@OP the fact that you did not read the Owner's Manual for your Cadilac shows how much it has not changed since you learned to drive. As others pointed out above if you preheat an ICE car you lose range too, you just aren't reminded of that because your typical ICE shows a gas tank gauge w/ full-3/4-half-1/4-empty granularity. Once you get used to your BEV that's all you'll need for it too. Since you'll wake up w/ a full tank everyday, you will pay even less attention to your "range" gauge than your gas gauge over time.

Tesla's advantages don't need hyperbole (exaggeration) to make them great (link coming), they are truly exceptional on the face value.
Buying experience -- no middle man, no negotiating
Service experience -- no dealer, not a profit center, OTA updates while you sleep, drivetrain w/ handful of moving parts vs. hundreds, regen brakes vs. friction brakes, no transmission, no oil changes, no smog checks
Driving experience -- low CoG, instant torque, superior stiffness, single-pedal throttle/braking control
Safety -- hard to roll, 4g frame--broke machine trying to crush it; lower risk of fire, 18" better in side-impact test than next best, frunk means huge front crumple zone, active safety features improve w/ time (sw updates, fleet learning)
Technology -- temperature-managed batteries charge faster and last longer, control car from smartphone or center console, OTA updates means car gets better over time--driving dynamics, efficiency, range, safety; BEV are better than ICE in most ways, charge time and range improving steadily, so biggest weaknesses are being addressed, and they only impact you a lot on road trips; day-to-day BEV are ready and full, even pre-conditioned

lilbean | 7 januari 2017

@Conan, I don't find the list to be true. Do you have a Model S or X? Are Model X owners more likely to get loaners? Getting a loaner was never a problem for me. And please be nice to @SbMD. He's sweet. Thanks.

Conan_the_Contrarian | 7 januari 2017

croman, exactly correct. I mentioned in an earlier post. If this kind of stuff continues from the company (and the absurdist spinning from current owners), there's going to be hell to pay when a couple of hundred thousand people from ICE are dealing with this car. The complaints and lawsuits will only get so much worse.

People think that they're helping the company when they engage in relentless absurdist spin. They're not.

J.T. | 7 januari 2017

@Conan >>>>First, I read the forums extensively, and the hyperbolic praise on every single topic (at least back then) fooled me to some degree

There has never been a time on this forum when that was true. One of my first posts back in 2013 pointed out, after reading the ooohs and aaahs about OTA updates, that after just 3 more years of OTA updates my Model S would have most of the features that my wife's Audi A6 had three years ago.

The car has never been good enough, the service has never been good enough, the communication has never been good enough and yet it's the best car I have ever owned with the best service I have ever had and the communication still sucks.

Meatloaf had it right.

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