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OT Political Thread. Not for Tender Sensibilities. You've Been Warned.

OT Political Thread. Not for Tender Sensibilities. You've Been Warned.

Pity the Sad Legacy of Barak Obama

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/barack-obama-legac...

If TL;dr, here is the condensed version:

The age of Barack Obama may have been our last chance to break from our neoliberal soulcraft. We are rooted in market-driven brands that shun integrity and profit-driven policies that trump public goods. Our “post-integrity” and “post-truth” world is suffocated by entertaining brands and money-making activities that have little or nothing to do with truth, integrity or the long-term survival of the planet. We are witnessing the postmodern version of the full-scale gangsterization of the world.

The reign of Obama did not produce the nightmare of Donald Trump – but it did contribute to it. And those Obama cheerleaders who refused to make him accountable bear some responsibility.

In March 2009, Obama met with Wall Street leaders. He proclaimed: I stand between you and the pitchforks. I am on your side and I will protect you, he promised them. And not one Wall Street criminal prosecution.

US drone killings continue with no accountability.

Lack of support for BLM or Palestinians.

2/3 wealth growth to the top 1%

Support for Bloomberg stop and frisk and Rahm Emanuel's everything, with zero accountability

Demonizing dissidents like Snowden, Sterling and Manning

Obamacare is a Heritage Foundation, pork laden, corporate giveaway with 20M still uninsured.

A record 2.5 million deportations.

Bernie was punk'd by the DNC

The DNC is corrupt and doesn't fight for regular people

++++++++++++++++

I'm in agreement. After the last election the RNC at least went through the motions of trying to figure out why they were losing elections. Now, it's Russian hackers and Bernie, who subverted democracy instead of odious policies that demand corporate fealty.

Get a clue DNC and democratic politicians who ignore the will of the people at their peril. Go watch idiocracy to see our future when good men and women see wrong, and do nothing.

And lest you think I support our Orangutan-in-Chief, he will be covered in another post.

+++++++++++++++++

Update 9/9 The Best Case For Bernie.

https://www.salon.com/2019/09/09/dear-bernie-heres-how-you-can-still-win...

SamO | 3 oktober 2019

Meanwhile . . . Elizabeth Warren is a not a progressive on foreign policy:

“Once Warren’s foreign policy record is scrutinized, her status as a progressive champion starts to wither. While Warren is not on the far right of Democratic politics on war and peace, she also is not a progressive—nor a leader—and has failed to use her powerful position on the Senate Armed Services Committee to challenge the status quo. While she’s voted for military de-escalation on some issues, including ending the Yemen War, she’s gone along with some of the most belligerent acts that have occurred under her watch, cheerleading Israel’s devastating 2014 war on Gaza and vocalizing her support for sanctions against Venezuela. Even judged according to the spectrum of today’s Democratic Party, which is skewed so far to the right on war and militarism it does not take much to distinguish oneself, Warren gets an unsatisfactory grade: not the last in her class, but far from first.”

https://inthesetimes.com/article/21890/elizabeth-warren-war-military-ira...

SCCRENDO | 3 oktober 2019

No fear of facts. I just trust your July 2019 facts more than your April 2017 facts. I like Bernie too. Don’t get me wrong. And I have a few months still to make up my mind before the primaries.

SamO | 3 oktober 2019

I appreciate that you are keeping an open mind. Bernie is the best chance for an aggressive new deal. He’s against wars on Islam and is for reigning in apartheid in Israel. He’s the first genuine voice for peace in a generation.

On every issue, he’s the OG from civil and LGBTQ right to Medicare for All.

SCCRENDO | 3 oktober 2019

@Sam0. Indeed I am trying to keep an open mind. I love Bernie.

jimglas | 3 oktober 2019

but he would be nearly 90 at the end of his first term

jimglas | 3 oktober 2019

but he would be nearly 90 at the end of his first term

SCCRENDO | 3 oktober 2019

@jimglas. He won't even be 90 by the end of his 2nd term? But that is my one concern. The age of presidents. Things can start going downhill around this age

jimglas | 3 oktober 2019

typo, I meant 80

SamO | 3 oktober 2019

@jimglas,

If we aren't allowed to discriminate against people because of age in hiring, I think we obliged to follow at least that level of fairness in selecting a President.

Now please point out all candidates' cognitive decline. Point to issues of fitness for office because of poor personal conduct, bad votes, or wrongness on issues.

But don't concern troll your age bias.

andy.connor.e | 3 oktober 2019

+1 @SamO

SCCRENDO | 3 oktober 2019

We are not allowed to discriminate in general. But when making a personal choice like voting we certainly need to take all factors into account. I always felt that Bernie was "young" for his age as indeed I feel about about myself. His recent episode does not give me much concern as we have had unhealthier presidents. Even Clinton underwent stenting at some point I recall. He certainly cut out all the junk he used to eat and lost weight. That being said I am biased towards looking at a younger candidate but depending on how things evolve I may end up voting for Bernie in the primaries

SCCRENDO | 3 oktober 2019

Reagan and probably Trump have had cognitive declines. With Trump it may be more difficult to tell as he had issues to start

SamO | 3 oktober 2019

+1 @SCC,

You "can" use other criteria, but I think we'd all be appalled that someone posted he was concerned about an "asian" candidate for a "concern" over his ancestry and ability to be elected.

I wish Bernie was 35, but I think you pick the best candidate, first.

SCCRENDO | 3 oktober 2019

Agreed. However at this point I am still reasonably close on 4 candidates. Elizabeth Warren, Bernie, Budigieg and Kamala although she is dropping down to my second tier. So let's see what happens

blue adept | 3 oktober 2019

I think ti's more of a concern of whom would be Bernie's running mate/in the Vice President position should something transpire with Sander's health given that they'll be the one to assume the Presidency in the event of an incident.

SCCRENDO | 3 oktober 2019

The VP is kind of meaningless. They are there to bring along a certain group of voters. Anyone can attend funerals. Although perhaps now if we impeach Trump we end up with President Pence. Although if they both get impeached we end up with President Pelosi.

blue adept | 3 oktober 2019

Exactly!

It is important to consider all potentialities when deciding who to vote for and, what with our being only in the process of vetting presidential candidates, deciding one way or another at this time would be as premature as it would be unwise.

tew ms us | 3 oktober 2019

@SCC "So let's see what happens"

Your subconscious has been reprogramed; Trump answers almost all questions that way.

You can get your MAGA and KAG hats here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07H6YYKJF

blue adept | 3 oktober 2019

Whoa @tew ms us, way to ruin the thread!

blue adept | 3 oktober 2019

@SCCRENDO

To clarify, the VP candidate is just as important as the presidential candidate, so no one should pick just the one without considering the other because, in Life, sh!t happens.

SamO | 3 oktober 2019

Two words: Sarah Palin.

Yikes.

Bernie could pick a Stacey Abrams or Nina Turner to energize the working class. Just not a senator. We need to retake he Senate.

NKYTA | 3 oktober 2019

Stacey Abrams would be a good choice for the African American vote.

I hope Bernie goes with Yang, sooner rather than too late.

If he doesn’t pick his running mate before the primaries (a la conventional way), he won’t make it. IMHO

Get’ er dun.

SCCRENDO | 3 oktober 2019

@Ssm0. Mike Pence. Dick Cheney, Joe Lieberman, Paul Ryan Tim Kaine????
It’s the president candidate that is far more important than the VP. How many VPs have become president?

SamO | 3 oktober 2019

Michael Bennet - lawyer
Joe Biden - lawyer
Cory Booker - lawyer
Steve Bullock - lawyer
John Delaney - lawyer
Kirsten Gillibrand - lawyer
Kamala Harris - lawyer
Amy Klobuchar - lawyer
Tim Ryan - lawyer
Elizabeth Warren - lawyer
Andrew Yang - lawyer
Bernie Sanders - not a lawyer

nwfan | 3 oktober 2019

@SCCRENDO, to name a few after 1900's.
Teddy Roosevelt
Truman
Nixon
LBJ
Ford
George Bush

nwfan | 3 oktober 2019

@Sccrendo, number of VP the last 100 years who attempted to become President?
Just about all of them except Quayle.

SCCRENDO | 3 oktober 2019

I guess I meant how many Vice Presidents replaced the president to become president:

Tesla2018 | 4 oktober 2019

Did Roosevelt die in office and Truman took over, Kennedy was killed and LBJ took over, Nixon quit but VP Agnew quit before him, so Ford became VP (think he was Speaker of the House?), and Ford took over after Nixon quit

jimglas | 4 oktober 2019

Age remains a concern
its not "age'ism" or discrimination
It is a fact that everyone has physical and cognitive decline as they age

SCCRENDO | 4 oktober 2019

@Tesla2018. My point exactly. But if we get an older president the VP does become important

andy.connor.e | 4 oktober 2019

I dont think someone would be less capable of leading the country if they had a heart condition. I think someone would be less capable of leading the country if they were having alzheimer symptoms.

One of the best presidents ever, FDR, had polio and was partially paralyzed.

SamO | 4 oktober 2019

"Age remains a concern" is passive voice construction. Use the "I" . . .

"I have concerns for an old person being President."

The historicity of "old persons" being President is ignored.

Wear your bias. It's fine. But don't pretend this isn't something other than an electability argument that you have to project onto the public to win.

Bernie's fine. Lots of people have stents. Clinton had them 20 years ago and he's still around flying to pedo island with jeffrey dahmer er . . . I mean Epstein.

SCCRENDO | 4 oktober 2019

Age is certainly a factor in considering electability. I have always felt that age is a bigger issue in Biden than Bernie. Bernie was a marathon runner and although I don’t know his present exercise patterns I have always considered him far healthier than his age. I was discussing this with my son who is a cardiologist visiting from Tennessee. The one concern is that we do not know if this was angina vs a myocardial infarction and also that he is developing it at this age is a negative. He is also embarking on a highly stressful campaign followed by a very stressful presidency if elected. I think this is very different from Clinton who was younger when this happened and has changed his lifestyle dramatically.

SCCRENDO | 4 oktober 2019

If it was angina it was likely unstable angina with an imminent threat of a myocardial infarction.

andy.connor.e | 4 oktober 2019

I dont see how its any less likely that Bernie with his "heart problems" could be elected when we as a country elected Trump.

SamO | 4 oktober 2019

Lol

jimglas | 4 oktober 2019

the fact that trump was elected speaks to a major problem with the U S of A
As for Bernie, we really dont know what hapened or the seriousness of his coronary disease
As for Bill, I believe he had bypass surgery?

andy.connor.e | 4 oktober 2019

Not really relevant to the persons ability to run office.

SCCRENDO | 4 oktober 2019

I am not sure practically whether it is a big difference between stenting and bypass although bypass is more likely if the vessels are worse or the position and length of lesion. Trump is an unhealthy guy but to the best of our knowledge is not diabetic has had not any heart events and is on a powerful statin.

jimglas | 4 oktober 2019

Trump chose the right parents. Fred lived to 93 and mary lived to 88. Although fred had Alzheimers disease.
Donald acts and speaks like he does.

TabascoGuy | 4 oktober 2019

@tew - I'll take a couple boxes of those Made America Go Away hats. I'll pass them out at the next Trump rally here.

sabbia | 4 oktober 2019

David Brooks wrote today about the motivation of some of the Trump supporters. Brooks's sociological point is that a good portion of Trump supporters realize that Trump has committed serious crimes but continue to support him because Urban Guys (Brooks's term) don't consider the valid complaints of Flyover Country Guys (another Brooks term).

TEW, may I ask which of these you are? Excuse criminality so long as Trump cares about your gripes or are you one who believes that Trump is honest and above reproach?

SCCRENDO | 4 oktober 2019
NKYTA | 4 oktober 2019

And likely rump will poke fun at that fact. :-(

Shesmyne2 | 4 oktober 2019

SamO
What’s wrong with lawyers? Do tell...:-)

Still Grinning ;-)

SamO | 4 oktober 2019

Don’t mind lawyers just don’t want my daughter to marry one ;-)

blue adept | 5 oktober 2019

Someone wants us to be mad at lawyers.

blue adept | 5 oktober 2019

One's opinion of who they should pick for a presidential candidate shouldn't be based on ageism, sexism, racism, or even their appearance, only on the individual's demonstrated ability to effectively and justly govern our nation...

That is the quality we should all be focused on.

SCCRENDO | 5 oktober 2019

@blue adept. I guess you really are a lawyer. My daughter and son in law are lawyers so for sake of family unity I had to quit lawyer jokes. I presently believe that there are some great lawyers out there. But they are in the minority. I do like the lawyers that are standing for president

blue adept | 5 oktober 2019

IDK, @SamO, I'm beginning to seriously doubt the competence of your input here given that you've demonstrated the inability to distinguish a traitor from a 'hero' despite all of the evidence to the contrary...

Just saying.

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