Forums

Less Range on Charging a New Model S 75

Less Range on Charging a New Model S 75

I received my new Model S 75 today and charged it to the 90% level and it is only getting showing 217 miles. This would imply a max range of 241 miles which is not the quoted 249 miles. I know 8 miles is not a big deal but has anyone else experienced this from a new Model S?

msavouray | 21 september 2017

I got my S75 in July and that exactly the same number you have.

stan23 | 21 september 2017

Yes, my S75 car when new charged to 221 miles @ 90% A week later, it dropped to 217.

aviator71 | 21 september 2017

Yep. Took delivery of S75 two weeks ago and I charge mine to 80% and it only shows 193 miles. I've got 500 miles on car.

johnttchen | 21 september 2017

It is too much of a coincidence that these numbers are the same. I wonder if it means a group of cells within the pack have failed? Does Tesla warranty cover less than expected mileage on charging?

johnttchen | 21 september 2017

It is too much of a coincidence that these numbers are the same. I wonder if it means a group of cells within the pack have failed? Does Tesla warranty cover less than expected mileage on charging?

writejohnchan | 21 september 2017

I'm also having the same issue my 75 is showing 191 at 80% charge, just got mine on 9/19.

SoCal Buzz | 21 september 2017

It is normal guys, don't worry about it. The numbers are just SW driven estimates that vary based on type of use, charge cycles, etc. Read the Teslatap stuff linked above, and enjoy.

JayInJapan | 21 september 2017

I linked it above. Read up on charging and your battery. Please take some responsibility to learn how your new car works. Really, we're trying to help you.

https://teslatap.com/articles/owners+manual+companion#charging

Bighorn | 21 september 2017

Come on guys--a little due diligence please.

georgehawley.fl.us | 22 september 2017

They should put a tiny meter in the car like a gas gauge instead of giving a number so we wouldn't' be able to tell the difference between 217 and 221 miles or whatever, especially for those of us afflicted with OCD 😉

Bill_75D | 22 september 2017

Switch the battery meter to % remaining and stop worrying about the miles.

Nexxus | 25 september 2017

Our Model S75D at 90% is 225 miles of charge. Been this number since we've had it 10/23/16.

shw84w | 25 september 2017

I've owned for 9 months. So far, so good. And very enjoyable. Until today. Car took "forever" to wake up, and when it finally did, none of the accessories worked. Blank screen, unable to give instructions, etc. The car did drive ok, in absolute silence. It can't be the battery already, can it?

NKYTA | 25 september 2017

@shw, did you try rebooting? Read those links posted twice above. In fact, read them twice.

Offline | 25 september 2017

Nexxus@ there was an update a few months ago that changed the numbers to make them more realistic. My S100D @ 80% went from 276 to 269. The release notes even said the range estimates had been adjusted to be more realistic. 100% before that was about 344 and is now about 336. I'm surprised your numbers didn't change.

JayInJapan | 25 september 2017
dsteal | 25 september 2017

That teslatap link gives me a scary warning when I click on it.

S75D at 90% shows 229 range. Fairly close to what is advertised.

netproperties | 25 september 2017

Got mine in December 2016. 100% charge to either 241 or 242 every time. I worried about the 8 miles also. Still fun to drive.

2015P90DI | 25 september 2017

Seems to be a common theme with Tesla's that they only get the advertised range for a few days or maybe weeks before the first big decline in range, then stabilizes with only minor degradation from there. Seems that since it appears to happen to virtually all Tesla's and in such a short period of time, maybe Tesla should advertise the "after 1 month" range and the first few weeks would just be a bonus. Doesn't seem right to have an advertised range change by 3% after only a few weeks so consistently. My P90D did the same thing.

SeaDoc | 26 september 2017

Relax - it's ok - for those who just can't accept that - do a full charge 100% every so often - not too often, then do a 90%, then settle on 80% - it allows all the cells to get 'excited'... and perhaps this will assist the owner in getting excited too, about their Tesla... It certainly works for me...

teslamodelx | 23 februari 2018

I Just got a 2017 Enterprise MS loaner 75 and decided to drive it from California to Las Vegas today and the most odd thing is that I got it to charge all the way up to 291 miles!!? and still had more room to charge! How is this even possible!? Any one with similar experience?

Bighorn | 23 februari 2018

Ideal miles

melburstein | 23 februari 2018

johnttchen 217 miles for a 90% charge is the same as what I get on my 5 month old Model S75.

PBEndo | 23 februari 2018

@Teslamodelx
Go to controls/settings/units and select rated.

garyjtate | 23 februari 2018

12/2017. S 75

80% charge shows 196 miles

jscoleman | 24 februari 2018

I've got a 4/2017 Model S 75. It's been charged once to 100% and showed 252 miles range, I usually charge to the 90% range (2nd to last tick in the charge slider) and get 218-220 miles.

AmpUp | 24 februari 2018

I have a 6 months old 75D with about 5,000 miles. I always charge to 90% and have gotten 226 miles from day one to this day.

xfactor973 | 20 juli 2019

22k miles on my July 2017 model s 75 RWD and a 90% charge shows 204 miles. I don’t ever charge to 100% though so the number might be off a bit.

david.harris | 21 juli 2019

Slightly different.
Recently I drove 176.2 miles. The display reads 50.4 kWh used for an average of 286 Wh/mile (I drive very gently!). This equates to 3.5 miles/kWh. My car is 205 85S so this would give a "range" of 297.2 miles for 100%; 176.2 miles should thus have used 59%.
It was charged to 92% at the start and 13% at the end - 79% used, ie 67.15 kWh. For 176.2 miles this would be 381 Wh/mile.
This is a major discrepancy. I assume the mileometer is fairly accurate (?) and the actual kWh consumption should be accurate. But if it used 50.4 kWh for 176.2 miles and used 79% (92-13), then that gives 100% as 63kWh. Tesla tell me the battery still has 83%.
Something is wrong. Is it my calculations?

murphyS90D | 21 juli 2019

Assuming that 205 85S is actually 2015 85S the rated range of an 85 battery was 265 miles.
176.2 / 265 x 100 = 66.5%.
The useful part of an 85 battery is around 76 kWh so 66.5% is 50.5 kWh.

Bighorn | 21 juli 2019

@david
Your mistake is the assumption you ever had 85 kWh of motivational energy. It was 74 when new and has since dropped depending on age and mileage.

Bighorn | 21 juli 2019

You obviously like numbers, but you’re operating under several misapprehensions. Happy to go over questions. Parity for rated miles is 278 Wh/m so you can get a decent approximation of capacity by multiplying that by rated miles at 100% SOC. You didn’t say whether the 176 miles/50 kWh was an uninterrupted trip commenced after charging. Methodology will give differing results, especially if there were intervening stops.
@murphy’s math only holds if you’re achieving EPA efficiency (278)—you were close, but his math is not precise nor is 76 kWh your capacity now.

david.harris | 21 juli 2019

@murphyS90D - yes silly typo, sorry.

@Bighorn. Thanks for the comments, but I don't quite understand.
1] I wasn't assuming the 85kWh, Tesla service last month stated it still had 83kWh for 100%. Maybe this was False News?

2] The 176.2 miles was two trips with 3hours pause between, but AFAIK it shouldn't matter what the trip was {I fully understand that many factors affect the consumption, but the "actual" - or at least displayed - consumption was 50.4kWh - how / where I drive doesn't seem to come into that measured figure. Naturally I would have used more in the winter, if I'd driven faster, stopped more often etc. I am just using this trip as a concrete example, not at all as a guide to any other journey}
I didn't used Rated or Typical miles as they, of course, vary all the time according to the drive. I 'think' the 50.4 kWh used should be accurate, and the 176.2 miles certainly should be.Based on those, apparently concrete, figures, the rest is simple maths and not dependent on anything.
But I do not know how they get the '%' figures. I thought it would be % of the battery capacity - maybe this is incorrect? The display says it was charged to 92% (and Yes, I know they say keep it to <80%), and finished with 13%, which is 79%. Of what? If 79% was used - on this particular journey - in 176.2 miles, then for the same consumption 100% would be used in only 223 miles - driving at 286 Wh/mile which I think you will agree is fairly gentle.
This seems to be much less than the forum (or, of course Tesla) quotes.

Assuming I get scared at 10% (not that many chargers in the UK), and don't charge >80%, I have 70% sensibly useable, which is only 156 miles. And that is exactly what I have found over the last year in real life. To get to Cambridge and back from Banbury (83 miles x2), I have to leave with >85%, and arrive back with about 8%.

Where have I gone wrong?

murphyS90D | 21 juli 2019

1) That was definitely false news. No 85 kWh battery ever had anywhere near 85 kWh available for moving the car. The guy who analyzed the car in exhausting detail said the 85 kWh battery is actually an 81.5 kWh battery with 77.5 kWh usable.

2) Who is they? The car itself says 90% for normal use and 100% if you need it. The only requirement is that if charged to 100% you need to start driving as soon as possible after charge completion.
Driving 100 miles non-stop is not the same as driving two 50 mile segments with a break in the middle.
We also have a problem discussing this since USA cars are rated by the EPA and European cars are rated by whatever the agency is over there.

camilla | 21 juli 2019

The latest update gave our 70D shorter range. Before we could charge 340 km now 290 km. The constitution in kWh is still the same. Anyone else with same experience?

david.harris | 21 juli 2019

@murphyS90D
1] That's interesting! I will grill my mate at the service station!

2] "They" is the blog at Tesla Tap in the thread above https://teslatap.com/articles/owners+manual+companion#charging
from Sep 21 2017, and seemed to be echoed in quite a few posts. Maybe things have moved on?

The rating in this case shouldn't matter, as it is the actual reported figures, rather than a rating, that I am querying.

Part of my interest is that I was (faintly) considering upgrading to an S100 to get more useable range, since my frequent 170 mile journey seems to be near my current car's limit. Perhaps I will ask them to let me drive an S100 for 250 miles and see what it actually gives!

geo.teepe | 21 juli 2019

Just drive your car, worry less.

mstubbs007 | 21 juli 2019

Don't think that everything Tesla tells you is correct including the Specs on the cars they are selling. The blank MCU is a problem but can be addressed. Tesla has the ability to see this type of failure but you need to tell them when it happened day and time keep c record so they can go back in the software log and see what took place. Mine has done it a few times but rebooting the computer fixes the issue in most cases but I do understand its a bit scary not to be able to control the settings or anything from the master screen. Also, the fact that the MCU in a very costly replacement is no joke as well.

Bighorn | 21 juli 2019

You definitely got bad info with the 83 kWh. And methods do matter--interrupting your trip introduces unmeasured lost kWhs to things such as battery conditioning. I've spent years analyzing this and after over 290k miles, you can pretty much take it to the bank. 77.5kWh were programmed to be available, but there are buffers. The 265 rated miles that represents consuming your 100% SOC, when new, is 265rm X 278Wh/rm = 73.67 kWh. I know you've chosen to eschew rated/typical miles--and the vernacular is different than in the states as you have different regulatory agencies, so the maths are probably different. It is useful for academic purposes in estimating battery capacity as you can extrapolate values if you know the rate constant, Wh/rm.
A better technique is simply extrapolating full kWhs from a single long trip using kWh/(SOC begin-SOC end) i.e. start at 80% and drive to 30%--divide measured kWhs by 0.5. I don't think you mentioned your overall mileage, but it would not be unusual for you to have lost 4-8 kWh over the 4 years. Switching up to a 100 kWh battery would not only get you longer range, it supercharges about 35 kWs faster than the 85 kWh battery. I'm not sure if the 100s have been enabled to get the recent bump to 150 kW charging--the 85s have not.

Yodrak. | 21 juli 2019

"Tesla tell me the battery still has 83%."
"Tesla service last month stated it still had 83kWh for 100%."

I hope you are not conflating % of original capacity with kwhr. What did "Tesla" really tell you?

david.harris | 22 juli 2019

@Yodrak. My typing - sorry. Tesla Service quoted their report as "the battery still has 83kWH".

@geo.teepe I love driving the car, but without multi-stop route planning, my 70 -90 mile journeys require careful planning. A single journey is easy (route map tells me if I need to charge and where to do so), but it takes no account of where I'm going next and will happily leave me with - say - 20%. The nearest charger is 58 miles away!
if I'm not careful I arrive at first stop with less than is needed to get to he next supercharger.

@Bighron Very useful, thanks. I'm amazed that there are "lost" kWH! I know that the car does use a bit when idle (I nearly had a flat battery returning from 2 weeks holiday!), but surely the ONLY relevant figure for Tesla to give is how much the car has used, whether by driving, heating, restarting or anything?

I will check the next 85 mile journey, Why divide measured kWH by 0.5? Or is that because you suggest 80%-30% ie an "official" 50% used?
My mileage is 40K, car has done 52K.

Is it possible in the US to have a larger battery fitted (there seem to be some offers on eBay)?

Bighorn | 22 juli 2019

Dividing by 0.5 is simple extrapolation—basically using half the battery and doubling the result. UK has the same battery as US. There are increasing draws in the battery that don’t get logged by the kWh meter. Less germane in your case since you have an older vehicle, but any time the car is “off”, it is not registering consumption. Primarily that will be pumps and compressor, especially if you arrive with a hot battery. Cabin overheat protection or keeping climate on while gone are also possible draws. It’s really not a big deal—you just need to be aware when you do your experimentation. Most people figure out pretty quickly that if you have 200 miles “in the tank”, you’re not able to drive that far over the course of a week, unplugged. There are also phantom or vampire losses that just represent computers that run in the background, perhaps 50 W, so a kWh a day, give or take. It’s varied over the years with firmware and it’s improved with the Model 3.

david.harris | 22 juli 2019

Very useful, thanks. I'll just have to accept that it works as about a 70kWH car!

Bighorn | 22 juli 2019

@david
Mine got down to 65 kWh at 197k miles, but got replaced when a module went bad and I got 27 miles back, from 234 to 261.

david.harris | 24 juli 2019

Ok. My late 2015 85S. Test journey as per Bighorn's suggestion.

Start charge 82%. 85.2 miles, arrive with 50% using 22.5kWH @ 264 Wh/mi.
Stop for 5 hours, restart with 50% (no change on a hot day 31oC), get home after total 180.8mi with 9% using 49.8kWH @ 275 WH/mi.
So: 49.8kWH is apparently 73% of the total capacity according to the car, which equates to 66.9kWH. Depressing.

So even with such gentle driving 180 miles is the realistic safe limit for my car.

Bighorn | 24 juli 2019

Check your math
22.5/0.32= 70.3kWh
49.8/0.73= 68.2 kWh

Realistic safe limit is higher as you’ve not used all of your battery.

david.harris | 25 juli 2019

Ouch. Must have mistyped into the calculator! Thanks for the correction.
Still, I don't like a planned journey getting down to single figures of charge - yesterday evening the motorway exit was closed and there was a 20 mile detour - could have been disastrous! Yes I can agin another c.20 miles by charging to 90%, but opinions seem to vary as to whether this is bad for the battery or not.

TranzNDance | 25 juli 2019

David, your wellbeing is worth more than the (likely) very little effect on the battery. Increase the charging percent and worry less about range.

Bighorn | 25 juli 2019

For routine drives, 90% should not put you ill at east and 100% for the occasional long trip is no big deal. Like I said earlier, you likely have 4-8 kWh of degradation based on the age of the car, and the relatively low miles would put you at the lower end, or 74-4—pretty much the ~70 that you measured. I think your main disappointment derives from the misapprehension that it was ever 85 kWh. If it’s really important that you have a 300 vs 200 mile range, get the 100D. The good news there being that the 100 actually has a bit more than 100 kWh total, so a larger relative usable capacity than the 85.