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Totally Coal Free!

Totally Coal Free!

Many EV owners have solar and have been coal free for years. It was nice to see our northern state's Utility, PG&E is now totally coal free. In our area, the city switched to from PG&E to SVEC, which is 100% renewables, and it's slightly cheaper than PG&E too. Hope other utilities follow California, especially now that coal is one of the most expensive and dirty ways to produce electricity now.

b.tesla | 2018年6月23日

Awesome. Hopefully it is just a matter of time; green electricity is getting cheaper. Even if somebody denies the science of global warming and climate change, they won't be able to deny the economics as wind & solar electricity become cheaper than coal & nuclear & natural gas. Throw in some super huge battery packs to keep things smooth on the grid, and we might be on our way to a sustainable future.

Tesla2018 | 2018年6月24日

Im glad to see that it is becoming more economical since wind and solar makes more sense than mining and burning coal. I dont care about global warming but thought that they had to put some type of scrubbers on smokestacks to stop most of the pollution from coal. Did that stop or is it optional, or does it only cut down a small portion of the pollution?

SO | 2018年6月24日

@tesla2018 - “Don’t care about global warming”.

It’s so great that we can be complacent.

There is no such thing as “clean coal”.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/08/23/climate/what-clean-coal-is-and-isn...

“The term “clean coal” was popularized in 2008 by coal industry groups, at a time when Congress was contemplating climate change legislation. While the term is deliberately vague, it is often understood to mean coal plants that capture the carbon dioxide emitted from smokestacks and bury it underground as a way of limiting global warming.”

Mike83 | 2018年6月24日

That is excellent to hear. More and more cities, businesses and States are making smart choices and more humane decisions.

Tesla-David | 2018年6月24日

Very excited to hear that many cities are making the right choices, and that energy is getting cleaner, and less reliant on coal energy sources. My wife and I are now independent from our electric grid with the recent installation of two PW2's integrated with our 13.2 kWh solar system in Edmonds, WA. It certainly feels good that we are generating all the electricity we need to run our all electric home, charge our two Tesla's off our roof, and also sending excess electricity back to grid to be used by people in Snohomish County Public Utility District.

MitchP85D | 2018年6月24日

Now, for a hard dose of reality for you global warming worshippers!

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/06/17/total-failure-of-the-climate-crus...

Coal is going to hang around world-wide for many decades to come.

SO | 2018年6月24日

@Mitch - so you are gloating that the same amount of crap is going into the air as 20 years ago? What a thing to be proud of.

TeslaTap.com | 2018年6月24日

Clean coal - one of the better oxymorons! Mining and burning still create a tremendous amount of toxic pollution. https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-energy/coal-and-other-fossil-fuels/coal-air...

Not sure why those that live in states with coal plants aren't up in arms about how bad it really is. Must be they've been bamboozled with "clean coal" :(

Earl and Nagin ... | 2018年6月24日

@TT,
Unfortunately, those who live in states with coal plants pay a pittance for electricity. It is hard to convince people to pay more for something just because it is the right thing to do.

SO | 2018年6月24日

I live in Michigan and pay a premium for the 100% renewable option. Probably only a handful do in this state though. Looking forward to the solar roof.

Mike83 | 2018年6月24日

https://www.npr.org/2018/02/06/583456129/black-lung-study-biggest-cluste...
I'd rather pay 10 times more than breathe the crap the feds want to allow. Doctors are much more costly.

jdonovan | 2018年6月24日

@tesla2018 Smokestack scrubbers are required primarily to reduce sulfur dioxide, which causes acid rain. They have no effect on CO2 emissions and little effect on other pollutants from burning coal, e.g., mercury, arsenic, etc.

The good news is that burning fossil fuels is rapidly becoming uneconomical, even without including the externalities of these pollutants.

jdonovan | 2018年6月24日

@tesla2018 Smokestack scrubbers are required primarily to reduce sulfur dioxide, which causes acid rain. They have no effect on CO2 emissions and little effect on other pollutants from burning coal, e.g., mercury, arsenic, etc.

The good news is that burning fossil fuels is rapidly becoming uneconomical, even without including the externalities of these pollutants.

Tesla2018 | 2018年6月24日

Correct me if I am wrong, but dont plants need CO2 to live and turn it into oxygen. Wouldnt CO2 be beneficial to areas with forests? If too much CO2 is a problem and causes global warming then why cant we find out how plants covert it and come up with a way to synthesize it into oxygen. I took chemical engineering and flunked a long time ago, but wouldnt Carbon be a byproduct or is something missing? Then use Carbon fiber to make things instead of steel. Or plant trees over where the CO2 is being buried so that their roots absorb it and grow better?

jdonovan | 2018年6月24日

You should do some reading on this. Scientists do understand how CO2 is converted into energy and oxygen by plants, but it's a very inefficient process. Around 1% efficiency if I remember correctly. It's because the CO2 molecule is thermodynamically very stable. There are methods doing this artificially but again energy intensive. Still growing trees helps, but worldwide we are cutting and burning forests faster than planting them. But every bit helps. Including buying a Tesla!

Tesla2018 | 2018年6月24日

Excuse my mad scientist ideas but isnt Co2 used as a propellant and to inflate things? I remember using it on bb guns and to inflate the lifevests and rafts that are used on planes and also using fire extinguishers with it. Its was very cold. Does it need to be compressed to use it as a propellant and if so, could it be used to spin a turbine that could produce electricity and cold air would be a byproduct? Or is the energy needed to compress it greater than the energy that it would produce? But p=v*r/t if I recall so wouldnt adding pressure increase temperature since the atoms are closer together? Glad I didnt stay with chemical engineering since I probably would have blown something up due to my incorrect calculations. I was good at math and science, but could never figure stuff out when I had to combine them.

MitchP85D | 2018年6月24日

Hey SoSo, what makes you think I am gloating? I am just pointing out that you are living in a fantasy world if you think you can knock out coal worldwide in a matter of a few years. The combination of nuclear and natural gas will do more to reduce coal-fired power plants than wind and solar.

neofelis | 2018年6月24日

bump

neofelis | 2018年6月24日

Bump

SO | 2018年6月25日

@mitch - who said we are trying to knock out coal usage in a few years?

Just because it’s going to take decades or even another century to eliminate all coal usage worldwide, doesn’t mean we should give up and not try.

MitchP85D | 2018年6月25日

I'll tell you what SoSo. If YOU don't like coal-powered energy, then YOU don't buy it. Allow others to decide for themselves whether they want coal-powered electricity or not. That is what freedom is about. If you think coal-powered electricity is bad, then convince your fellow American citizens of that.

Remnant | 2018年6月25日

@neofelis (June 24, 2018)

<< bump >>

sdfghjklcvbnm

finman100 | 2018年6月25日

It's a deal.

then I choose not to pay for health problems brought on by burning coal. there. settled.

Oh wait, I DO have to pay for that. huh. go figure.

TeslaTap.com | 2018年6月25日

@MitchP85D - A somewhat fair argument (don't like coal, don't buy it). I'm glad those of us in California have decided we don't want coal-powered electricity, even when the pollution is generated many states away. Even if you don't believe in climate change, or CO2 issues, coal is awful on so many other levels. I expect most consumers around coal plants are not aware they are exposed to arsenic, cadmium, mercury, and many other toxins. It's sad that so few care anything about health of their neighbors. I'd rather be an exporter of clean energy than a toxin creator.

SO | 2018年6月25日

Mitch - one day your grandkids are going to ask why more wasn’t done to deal with pollution, sea level rise, etc (because THEY will have to deal with it.)

At least you can proudly say “because I was a shortsighted dumbass”.

Remnant | 2018年6月25日

@SO (June 25, 2018)

<< “because I was a shortsighted dumbass” >>

Hey, moronic SaSoT creep, your delusional misattribution of accountability for future climatic catastrophes and imaginary excuse by Mitch, is over the top and makes you the dumbass of this thread.

SO | 2018年6月25日

Coming from you remnant, that means everything. /s

SO | 2018年6月25日

And remnant - since you can’t seem to figure it out, it isn’t that I’m pinning this on this one “Mitch”. It’s to ALL the Mitchs and Remnants of the world who certainly didn’t try to help the situation.

I’m also not saying that we can reverse the problem now either. But for people like you to go blindly full throttle with a known faulty outcome, is absolutely absurd. At least try for Pete’s sake. At least try.

SCCRENDO | 2018年6月25日

We have been through this many times before. But for the benefit of our favorite slow witted deniers let us do it again.

Coal is a general pollutant that is not good for your lungs and does contain other toxins. And no!!! Washing coal does not clean it up. Related to burning coal we get CO2 buildup. And the planet is very adaptable. Plants love CO2 and need it for photosynthesis. And this does make the planet greener. Extra CO2 also gets dissolved in the oceans. Unfortunately we are producing so much CO2 from fossil fuels that we do not have sufficient plants to absorb all the excess CO2. And chopping down trees for wood furniture etc makes things worse. The oceans are being overwhelmed by CO2 which gets converted into H2CO3 which is a weak acid. Unfortunately this makes oceans slightly more acidic, which is not good for sea life including coral. And beyond this we are still producing more CO2. This gets into the atmosphere and forms a greenhouse layer which warms the earth and changes the climate. It really is not that complicated once you learn the facts.

Sleepydoc1 | 2018年6月25日

@tesla2018 look at photosynthesis. Plants use solar energy to split CO2 and split H20 to form sugars and O2. They can also use the components to build stems branches trunk flowers roots etc. Then we turn around and burn those things and re-release the store as carbon. Coal is just a solidified plant product.

@teslatap - Sacramento dumped PG&E decades ok. Smud is 30+% renewables and no coal. Welcome to coal free charging. 70% of my total annual electricity comes off my roof array. No more good landscape there for more. 30% of the remaining ingredients is renewable.

MitchP85D | 2018年6月25日

Hey finnyman, you can thank government health care for having to pay for other people's health problems. In a Ron Paul America, you wouldn't have to do that!

Hey SoSo, sea level rise is very slow right now, and more than likely is very near its peak during this mild Interglacial Period we are living in. Tide gage data shows no acceleration of sea level rise in the past 50-100 years.

Hey Tesla Tap Dance, if you think electrical generation by coal is so awful, then convince your fellow Americans of that. Dr. John Christy has stated in Congressional testimony that life without electricity is brutal and short. I think electricity powered by coal has saved and extended lives by far more than the harm it has caused. In fact, the magnitude of the benefits of coal compared to the harm is on the order of 1,000,000,000 to 1.

SO | 2018年6月25日

Mitch - if you ever got cancer, you would not be paying all of your fees on your own. Just like you didn’t pay for all of your flooding repairs on your own.

As far as sea level rise, you are wrong.

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/sealevel.html

SCCRENDO | 2018年6月25日

@sleepydoc. You need to then tell them that when we suddenly burn all the solidified plant i plant product (aka coal) there is a sudden increase in CO2 that is too much for living plants to use and the oceans to buffer and so we get global warming and climate change and ocean acidification . If we burned coal very slowly over centuries and millenia then living plants may be able to use all the CO2.

TeslaTap.com | 2018年6月25日

@MitchP85D "... if you think electrical generation by coal is so awful, then convince your fellow Americans"

Exactly what I'm trying to do. So far success in California. Let's hope others get on board.

Also I've never said coal in the 1800-1900s wasn't beneficial to some humans, although the coal miners who died of various horrible deaths might not agree how beneficial it is. Basically mining coal is a great way for the workers to die prematurely. Like the cigarette industry, the coal industry is great at downplaying all the harmful issues with burning coal too. Perhaps those in the 1950s can be excused for not knowing, but today we know how awful coal is in so many ways.

There is really zero excuse to continue using coal, from a direct economic standpoint alone. I understand Coal and nuclear are now the two most expensive way to generate electricity - even ignoring the damage they do.

jerryk | 2018年6月25日

Good to hear all the positive new on the coal front. California wide we are under 4% of our electricity coming from coal and over 30% coming from renewables. The goal is to get 0% coal and 33% from renewables by 2020, and 50% from renewables by 2030. Here in NorCal We are seeing massive amount for solar being added already to many commercial buildings with entire section of parking lots having solar panel awnings. And the new law requiring all new homes to have solar starts in 2020 should add even more.

SCCRENDO | 2018年6月25日

@weathermoron. You are correct. Under Ron Paul you would not have any health insurance. So you would die from many more things than a libertarian polluted environment. But then again when your flood zone house continues to flood under Ron Paul induced climate change there will be no FEMA welfare cheese for you. Better start saving for Ron Paul happy days

MitchP85D | 2018年6月25日

Hey SoSo, if you smashed up your Tesla, I'm sure you would file an insurance claim on it. If a severe wind storm damaged your home, you would file an insurance claim on that. That is what insurance is for. When something bad happens in your life such as ill health, or if your house floods. I have no idea what kind of point you are trying to make there.

Dr. Judith Curry has some insights into sea level rise that are far more in depth than NOAA!

https://judithcurry.com/2018/06/23/sea-level-rise-isostatic-adjustment/#...

SCCRENDO | 2018年6月25日

We know you have no idea. Otherwise you wouldn’t be a libertarian. Libertarians want to cut all health insurance and indeed FEMA and its flood insurance. So if you want to protect against your inevitable flood zone flooding you are going to have to pay full price for your flood insurance. Np more FEMA welfare cheese. A smart guy would pay. But you who doesnt believe in climate change and don’t believe you live in a flood zone might take a risk. and then with your next flood you will come crying on this forum and blame us.

TeslaTap.com | 2018年6月26日

@jerryk - Great additional info. Note that the 4% coal number was from several years ago. The very latest numbers are from April 2018 where coal represents 0% of our energy (from PG&E). Don't know about Southern California, but expect similar numbers.

No reason for utilities to buy more expensive coal sourced electricity as everything else (other than Nuclear) is cheaper. Rates in our city went down when it switched to entirely renewables. While solar (via the utility) is now 10% of the renewables, wind represents 36%! Other renewables include Biomass 6%, Geothermal 1%, and Hydroelectric 47%.

MitchP85D | 2018年6月26日

Hey Goebbels Apprentice, you have any friggin' idea what that full price is??!!!! I don't think you have a clue what my home and flood insurance should be. According to Wildcat Jen, when you request flood insurance from Nationwide or Allstate insurance, they go to NFIP by default and offer that to their customers. Confirmed! That is exactly what happened when I requested flood insurance coverage from Nationwide. I wasn't going to get in Nationwide's face and tell them what a bunch of A-holes they are for setting up my flood insurance the way they did. What normal person would do that? Nationwide told me the extra premium and I paid it. End of story.

But for you Sanctimonious Socialist Turds, that isn't the end of it. You are pissed off that I did not suffer great financial harm from my house flooding. So, you are compelled to make these wussy-pus snide remarks about the fact I made a flood insurance claim, even though I've been paying flood insurance premiums for 10 years!

MitchP85D | 2018年6月26日

Also, Goebbels Apprentice, what makes you so certain that I will flood again? FEMA says I'm NOT in a flood zone!

SCCRENDO | 2018年6月26日

@weathermoron. But if you get rid of the EPA and the NFIP where will they default to?? You will be paying private rates. You truly don't seem to comprehend that your flood insurance is subsidized by the government. If you don't pay social security or Medicare as the libertarians want to do then there will be no Social Security or Medicare. Do you not understand that if you don't pay taxes these things will not exist. Are you that stupid to think that the government does not need a tax base. If it has no money it won't be able to pay for things with money that falls out of the sky. Think about where your FEMA welfare cheese comes from.

MitchP85D | 2018年6月26日

According to Wildcat Jen, it comes from the premiums I, and other flood insurance customers pay! She also said that those who do NOT pay flood insurance premiums are the ones who are getting freebies from government!