This is interesting... Shows how good the Tesla cars are, and how well they sell.
The only reason Chevy was selling any Bolts was to people who either didn't want to wait for the Model 3. It will be interesting to see a sales chart for the Bolt, along side of the Model 3, for the past year.
Where are all the posters who claimed the Bolt was just as good as Tesla.
What one says on the internet matters little. What people vote with their wallet is the only thing that counts. When you can buy a Chevy Corvette and Cruise with about the same amount of money it's a wonder that there are even people buying the Cruise.
What on earth are you talking about carlk? The Cruise starts at $17, 000 and the Corvette starts a little above $55, 000.
Oh, I get it "What one says on the internet matters little."
If Chevy built an E-Vette and it started at $55,000 I bet it would sell like hotcakes.....if it was anything close to the Tesla Roadster...which doesn't exist yet either (the new Roadster)
If you read between the lines a little, it appears that:
1. Bolts were diverted to S. Korea and Europe, resulting in lower inventories in the US, and potentially
2. GM is facing the same problem Tesla had towards the end of Q2 - they could be slowing down sales to make sure that the 200,000th unit is not sold until Jan 2019.
I'll be more impressed with a headline like this one in two or three years. This whole EV thing is in its infancy and is subject to a whole bunch of momentary ups and downs. Once the playing field is level (all major players have hit 200K in sales) these comparisons will be much more meaningful.
@TabascoGuy I said IF they cost about the same. Of course they don't. Otherwise no one would buy the Cruise just like no one would want to buy the Bolt now.
Volt sales up 23% so Bolt diverted overseas. Compliance sales is the name of the game for GM- just enough to allow SUV & pickup sales in CA, etc.
NoMoPetrol, when I first read the article I thought the same thing, but I was it a second time. They weren’t saying that the moved production of the Bolt, they were just talking about things in general as for the reason GM’s total sales are down 11%. The European version of the Bolt was branded an Opel, but GM sold Opel off and Chevy is practically non existent in Europe, so why would they move production of the car to Europe?
Whatever happens, for now, the Model 3 is a killer and with software additions and MCU replacement, it will be more so. If Tesla gets the Model Y out next year sometime, it will be even bigger. In 5 years Tesla will be one of the 10 leading manufacturers of automobiles in the world in terms of Gross revenues. Profits are overrated when you are growing revenues 50% per year, year over year.
The Model Y won’t be out next year. Meaning in production and on the streets. Elon had said, if I remember correctly, that they would reveal the Model Y early next year.
I hit Save too soon.
So with a reveal in say the first quarter, I wouldn’t expect it to be in production until 2020.
True but even the unveiling of Model Y will create demand through reservations which come at the expense of competitor’s market share/sales.
So if they were diverted to Europe and Canada, what are the global sales numbers? How many unsold ones are sitting on lots here in the states? If the price dropped to $20,000, they'd sell like hot cakes, but kill dealer profits and their other car lines. I've been in one. Decent econobax, but not $35,000 econo box.
In the GM's bubble world, this would confirm their core beliefs. "There is only a limited market for EV. About 1% of the population will pay any amount to drive an electric car. That is too small a market for us. We are GM! Elon, sold a lot of snake oil and got that segment. They are losing money in every sale. Let them keep this 1% market and the losses".
Many posters in these forums have used Bolt, they like it, they say it is not as good as Model 3, but it is 25,000 $ cheaper, so not a bad deal. They also say they have to fight GM to actually buy one.
We will know by this time next year, when 35K version is shipping and the waiting list is dwindling down, which of these two theories are correct:
Theory 1: If you make a no compromise electric car, and provide a fast charging network, people will dump ICEV and switch to BEV. (My vote for this theory)
Theory 2: People dont want BEV. They are happy with ICEV. 10 minute fill up is the most crucial thing for ALL car owners. There is a small segment with addled brains that will pay a lot of money for a BEV to make political statements. Ignore them (GM and other ICEV makers vote for this theory).
You forgot Theory 3: GM and other ICEV makers crapped their pants when Tesla took $1,000 deposits from over 400,000 people for a car that was only a gleam in the Tesla CEO's eyes and would not be ready for 2+ years. They have spent every waking hour since the Model 3 Reveal event slinging as much mud as possible at Tesla in the vain hope that Tesla would fail before it succeeded. They do not want to abandon their current business/profit model and are still in mud-slinging mode.
Who was it that said, “Lead, follow, or get out of the way.”? Chrysler? Very applicable slogan nowadays.
You can buy a Model 3 for $49,000.
Bolt = $35,000
@carlk "I said IF"
No, you didn't. Reread your post.
Do y'all really think the 3 @ 49k+ took away from the Bolt @ 35k (as SamO pointed out)?
I guess, maybe a bit, but once the cheaper 3 is available we'll see what happens for real. That's not a good way of putting it, things are certainly real right now :)
You know what I mean.
Not sure the Bolt is all that relevant anymore. Model 3 sold 10 times more in September than the closest EV/Hybrid - the Toyota Prius. Sales of the 3 in USA for September is more than 14 times that of the Bolt. No idea if the Bolt is just sold enough for compliance (likely), they don't have enough batteries (possible), or more likely just not that many customers.
TT +100 Exactly
Bolt is a dud.
Just like I've shouted from the rooftops since the day it was debuted.
People thought I was being a Tesla partisan because I thought the car sucked.
No charging network.
$35,000 for a $17,000 comparable vehicle.
Just found out that there is a company supplying Lyft drivers with the car, fully charged for $27/7 hour rental. Perfect use case. You can undercut the prices of Toyota Prius and the rider gets the benefit of a smooth ride, zero emissions etc.
Maybe soon GM will build an EV that someone wants to buy, but I'm sure when that would happen.
@SamO +1, well said. I have only seen 2 Bolt's here in Seattle over last 1+ years, and have seen many M3's, more every day, enough said about which car is the best! ;0)
I'm not sure who is going to buy a Bolt once the $35,000 Model 3 is available.
It's going to be a bloodbath for GM (and others).
Actually the 3 hurt and will continue to hurt Honda and Toyota.
Remember, the top 5 cars traded in for a 3 were the Prius, Leaf, BMW 3 Series and Honda Accord and Honda Civic. Those people, instead of buying a newer version of those cars, for much less money, chose to spend more and buy a 3. Just imagine how many of those models will be traded in when the $35K car comes out.
La Bolt officielle a été dévoilée au CES de Las Vegas2 puis au Salon de Détroit en janvier 20163. Elle est équipée d'une batterie électrique de 60 kwh trouvée dans le moteur avec une autonomie de 320 km. 80 km d'autonomie supplémentaire sont disponibles après une charge de 2 heures sur une prise de 240 volts grâce au chargeur intégré à la voiture4.
As a Tesla shareholder I look forward to seeing the growing pains (delivery problems, service issues, etc) resolved.
I have never been a GM fan, however, my 2017 Volt has turned out to be one of the best cars I have ever owned and so far, my dealer experience has been great. I also have driven the Bolt and it is a very good car and a great starting point for GM to get into EV's. If it had just a bit more range, I might have chosen it over the Volt. I am still a potential Tesla owner, but not until I am convinced they can give me a seamless sales and service experience comparable to my GM dealer performance.
Fire away.....I have my flameproof suit on.
I still cant warp my head around Ferrari's valuation of 27 billion dollars. It has an annual revenue of some 4 billion, in a stagnant market. It can not sell more than about 7000 cars a year. It used to officially limit itself to that number. It gives a small dividend of 0.5% or so.
Tesla on the other hand has 12 billion revenue, and has the potential to own anywhere between 20% to 50% of US car/suv market. Potential to be worth 500 billion to 1 trillion in 12 years. Some legitimate professional investor billionaire is saying it on TV, not some fanboi on the internet.
@ravi Some people seem to think Ferrari has the ability to sell every car it planned to make at any price it asks for. It might have some truth to it but there is no guarantee this can last forever. Actually it is running a great risk of being disrupted by Tesla and electric cars when it adamantly wants to stay with ICE. Roadster will definitely take away some of its low to mid end market. Some other supercar companies that is willing to adapt to battery electric can take over rest of its market.
I've been having great interest of supercar maker Koenigsegg since watching the documentary Apex on Netflix. Koenigsegg seems to be a down to earth engineer and a fan of green energy even that he's making supercars. He's also a fan of Tesla and Model S owner. He even admits he got inspiration from Tesla for his next gas/electric super car project using direct drive electric motor. I can't help but thinking perhaps Tesla could work with him to provide EV powertrain for his future pure electric supercar. He has the ability of selling limited numbers of million dollar plus supercars. There is no conflict of interest with Tesla. Will be good for EV adaption and great PR value too.
Where is Koenigsegg made? Sounds like another disruption of entrenched, traditional company(s) is happening.
I highly recommend people go to YouTube and watch videos on their car Regara. It has an ICE but an electric direct drive. In other words, there is no transmission and the associated shifting.
The major distrusting thing about it is that they have eliminated the abrupt shifting that is common in “super cars”. His inspiration was his Tesla. So, now Ferrari, Lamborghini etc are being squeezed from the top of the auto food chain and from the new kid on the block Tesla. People keep saying that Ford or BMW will be the first to go bankrupt, I would look further East of Germany........
Rather, look south of Germany.
BTW one of the other rare independent supercar makers Pagani gets engine from AMG. So Koenigsegg works with Tesla to get future electric powertrain may not be a too far out idea.
Do you all think Elon still has a soft spot for things Lotus?
Would he work with them again, in reverse?
Will he ever produce the Lotus submarine a la Bond. James Bond?
Simply discovered that there is an organization providing Lyft drivers with the auto, completely charged for $27/7 hour rental. Idealize utilize case. You can undermine the costs of Toyota Prius and the rider gets the advantage of a smooth ride, zero outflows and so forth.https://fetlife.vip/ https://downloader.vip/imvu/ https://downloader.vip/canva/
@Ross1 Likely not. Tesla is way ahead of Lotus in every way now. On the other hand the few hypercar makers like Koenigsegg still occupy a very special place in the auto word that Tesla alone will not be able to reach. Like jordan says Ferrari and Lambo will be squeezed from both top and bottom. Only choices for them will be either go full electric or die. That's basically Elon's strategy to accelerate the transition to sustainable transportation.
Any of you remember the movie "It's a Wonderful Life"?
The part where the old currmuggeon of a banker get's told by his accountant:
"There's your Potter's Field, Mr. Potter. Why the finest little cracker box houses you can buy for, what $5,000.00 apiece. Why they're selling as fast as they can build them. While all your rentals are being abandoned."
"Hey, but I'm just you're accountant. No skin off my nose."
Segue to GM and Ford's accountant telling Mary Barra and Ford's CEO:
There's your Potter's Field you guys (points to a map of the US with all the Superchargers) Tesla's secret sauce and they can't build that Model 3 fast enough to keep up with demand, even at $49K plus.
Time will tell....
I have seen only ONE Bolt in the wild. To understand why the car does not sell, you only need to see one.
Volkswagen and Audi sales drop over 50 percent compared to 2017.
And VW has the best chance of survival of the OEMs. Imagine if they hadn't been caught . . .they'd still be spending more embedded money in diesel and gas.
Now they are reluctantly transitioning.
Tesla is STILL ahead and their lead is net getting bigger.
Is anyone convinced that GM will exist in 5 years?
"Is anyone convinced that GM will exist in 5 years?"
Yes, absolutely. These transitions take much longer than that.
Everyone cites a different company that will be bankrupt. IF everyone were right, Tesla would be the only car company standing and we all know that won’t be the case. I am not saying that GM, VW, etc won’t look different, but they are certainly not going to be shuttering factories and literally closing up shop.
Just pointing out that GM's one downturn 10 years ago, and I'm not convinced Trump would do another bailout. Bankruptcy doesn't mean everything shuts down. Maybe they spin off their autonomous/ev assets into another company.
As fars as VW, it is most certainly shuttering diesel factories and closing up some operations right now.
But they are still dumping 90B Euros over the next 5 years in oil and gas.
Meanwhile, there is another big cost:
$10B investor lawsuithttp://www.autonews.com/article/20180911/OEM02/180919911/vw-diesel-cheat...
Maybe I've been too optimistic about VW.
Meanwhile, maybe the other automakers will be the likes of Nio . . .
"Baillie Gifford & Co., the second-biggest shareholder of Tesla stock, has taken an interest in Nio, the Chinese electric vehicle automaker that recently became a publicly traded company.
Baillie Gifford now owns an 11.44 percent stake in Nio, according to a regulatory filing posted Tuesday. The company disclosed that it had purchased 85.3 million shares, which were valued at about $515 million as of the close of trading Monday."
Check out who owns Lotus Cars.
and the Lotus Engineering.
and last but not least Lotus Racing.
all a bit confusing. Majority owners MAY be Asian - I think all private (no public stock that I can find)
PS- Maserati has used Ferrari Engines for years.
"Everyone cites a different company that will be bankrupt. IF everyone were right, Tesla would be the only car company standing and we all know that won’t be the case."
I agree. The legacy car companies have recovered from 2008 and make money on the cars they sell, whether they sell many or only a few cars. They may lose money on some models, but can make it up on other models.
Tesla, on the other hand, to survive needs to do more than just sell more cars than anyone else - it need to make money on the cars it sells. Operating at a less on the good will of investors will not last forever.
Yodrak. The only reason some of those automakers will stay is Tesla will never be able to make all the cars in the world. On the other hand who knows? You can just look at Amazon. Not making money for anything it just take your business away from you.
"The legacy car companies have recovered from 2008 and make money on the cars they sell, whether they sell many or only a few cars. They may lose money on some models, but can make it up on other models".
In order to make it up on other models, they need to have those other presumably popular enough models. That is not granted. It does not take all that long to start downsizing. Look at Ford.
ICE cars have peaked in 2016 it seems. Current drop in demand is structural shift. It does not matter how many steam engines you can produce if nobody wants them.
"A restructuring plan that will span three to five years is projected to cost Ford a whopping $11 billion in charges. ... nowhere near as desperate as it was during the previous recession and, despite a 48% drop in net income during the second quarter, it's still solidly profitable. But analysts and investors expect more from management to protect the bottom line, and that pressure already forced the automaker to announce plans to cut $25.5 billion in costs by 2022".
In other words investors need profit for themselves, not to subsidize cars that nobody wants.