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Total Range within your Tesla Model 3 App of Dual Motor AWD M3

Total Range within your Tesla Model 3 App of Dual Motor AWD M3

When I slide the charging limit bar to the far right I max out at 313 miles, it is suppose to show 322 miles. No one has confirmed full charge of 322 miles on this car.

what are others seeing within the app? it should show 322. Max I was able to charge was also 313. any clue?

Magic 8 Ball | 2020年1月20日

Please ignore FISHEV he is evil.

Questions he should have asked first:

When did you buy?
What is build date of car?

rangeoflight | 2020年1月20日

Similar, Dec 30 M3LR, max charge is 212, not 222. Reviewing things before hand, I believe the answer is something along the lines of "things change, you never know exactly what you'll get, it's an estimate, or Tesla lies about range, but at least they let you use all of it whatever that actually means.

Would like to get some specific thoughts on this - from a consumer standpoint, it does seem that if fully charged when new, it should at least start out at 322.

stingray.don | 2020年1月20日

If you have a 2020 model 3 LR AWS (non performance), then your car is rated at 322 miles. The 322 mile range was determined by EPA independent testing and is independent of the battery meter range estimate. Tesla has just not updated the battery meter to reflect the updated 322 miles range. It would be like under reporting MPG in a gas car - it has no affect on actual range.

stingray.don | 2020年1月20日

Would like to get some specific thoughts on this - from a consumer standpoint, it does seem that if fully charged when new, it should at least start out at 322.
________________

What happens to a gas car’s range if the manufacturer under reports the MPG (which they can do)? The advertised range is less than the rated range. However, this has absolutely nothing to do with actual range.

Look at the 310 as a slightly more conservative estimate of range.

rangeoflight | 2020年1月20日

Totally understand that YMMV - just seems odd that it would not match Tesla's claims (yes, it's the EPA, but it is what is on Tesla's site.) My Subaru was underperforming the EPA mileage, and yes, I did complain. And yes, it did actually come back to the EPA estimates once broken in. I don't think it is a totally unreasonable expectation that the stated range match claims. Your fuel tank takes 18 gallons when filled, how fast it drains depends on the go pedal...

I am curious, just barely getting to use the car and get some data on mileage. My wife has a 95 mile commute each way. 90% charge (280 miles) leaves an estimated range of 160 so it has burned 120 e-miles - about 24% over the "actual" mileage. I am guessing this is mostly speed (75-80), wind, etc. 24% seems like a hefty penalty - curious if this jives with what others are seeing.

I have also noticed that when leaving for my significantly shorter commute, within the first mile I've already burned 5 miles or so. Just trying to get a handle on real world range so we can be knowledgable about the true capabilities, and the effects of speed, etc on battery life.

Sarah R | 2020年1月20日

You know, this whole question of "what's my range" would go away if the only claims that Tesla made were

• Battery Capacity
• Distance over unit of energy

Then you'd have an "apples to apples" comparison with ICE vehicles.

For instance, if they simply said
60 kWh battery,
EPA estimated 4.2 miles per kilowatt-hour
everyone would recognize the comparison and do the mental math and calculate 250 miles range, probably less because YMMV.

75 kWh battery
EPA estimated 4.2 miles per kilowatt-hour

Mental math yields 315 miles

*NOTE: these numbers are examples and not intended to be students of fact. They are only examples to illustrate how simply changing the way the numbers are expressed changes the entire perception.

Twochewy | 2020年1月20日

The only way you will really know is if you run the battery down until the car stops (like the EPA does). You very well may get 322 miles if you follow something close to the EPA protocol. Otherwise it's likely just Tesla's BMS software.

stingray.don | 2020年1月21日

rangeoflight,

Shorter trips with idle time will not be indicative of actual range. It is normal to have low efficiency for the initial miles of the trip (same thing happens with gas cars). On a long trip this initial increased energy usage is averaged out and becomes negligible. Also, the car will use energy while idle particularly if sentry mode and/or summon standby are active. On top of that, many are experiencing cold weather which uses more energy particularly when the cabin heat is running. So don’t try to compare winter range and short trips with EPA estimates. If you want to see your energy usage, use the energy graph. With the non-P dual motor, you need to achieve about 240 - 245 wh/mi without idle time to achieve the 310 mile range estimate. To achieve 322 mile range, you will need to be slightly more efficient.

jallred | 2020年1月21日

Some people have gotten twice the EPA rated range on a drive. Some people get less than half.

There is large variability in the energy consumption rate for the car. Regardless of how much energy is in your battery, different drivers in different conditions will get different ranges. The same driver in different conditions will get different ranges. Different drivers in the same conditions will get different ranges. And they all vary a lot.

They give you the number for what the EPA "driver" got in the EPA conditions. You will soon learn how you compare to the EPA "driver" and conditions. When you do, you will have the EPA reference to adjust from. If Tesla used a reference model for range calculation that changes as you drive, you won't have a standard reference to compare against.

RaAusar | 2020年1月21日

One factor to consider is wheel size. Do you have 18in or 19in wheels?

See estimated EPA range based on tire size
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=42279&id=42280&id=...

Bighorn | 2020年1月21日

When was your car built? 322 only applies to very recent deliveries.

FISHEV | 2020年1月21日

"My wife has a 95 mile commute each way. 90% charge (280 miles) leaves an estimated range of 160 so it has burned 120 e-miles - about 24% over the "actual" mileage."

Dang! That's SuperCommuting. I did No. MD to Old Town Alexandria for two years, 87 miles each way through Balt and DC (worst traffic in US) but 95 is huge. Worth it for good job and good place to live. EV makes it guilt free.

Current commute is 104 miles round trip.

We do need to change the EPA test for EV's so they are more accurate. Take into account the effects of heating on EV's. Temp's much greater effect on EV's vs. ICE overall.

Adding to it is the 75% rule on charging so stated range is already reduced due to battery health issues, charging to 85% and and not running it below 10%) so the 310 (in my case) becomes 232 daily useable miles. That falls to 174 useable miles in temps below 40.

I have to charge every day to make the commute. S'OK...learning to live with an EV...but with more general public getting EV's, we really need to make the EPA EV range more accurate and more directly comparable to ICE EPA ratings (easy to meet or beat).

stingray.don | 2020年1月21日

Adding to it is the 75% rule on charging so stated range is already reduced due to battery health issues, charging to 85% and and not running it below 10%) so the 310 (in my case) becomes 232 daily useable miles.
_______________

There is no 75% rule. Tesla does not discourage charging to 100% and discharging below 10% when needed for long trips. It is only discouraged for daily commuting when range is not a concern.

Joshan | 2020年1月21日

they also advise it is perfectly find to charge to 90% every day. Just ignore the lying fish.

vmulla | 2020年1月21日

I plugged OP's numbers into a battery compare app and I see that the OP's battery is doing better than 99% of the users - it was the same result for any mileage I put as input.

Now, how accurate is the app? Do not know :) - but looks like 313 is about what a LR-AWD car can expect.

FISHEV | 2020年1月21日

"Tesla does not discourage charging to 100% and discharging below 10%."

Tesla does recommend 85%/10% rule but real key is Li-on tech requiring it for long term battery health no matter what any mfg states.

www.batteryuniversity.com

In this case, the car has rated range of 322 but owner does not see this reflected in the car at all or with any functionality.

Have we seen anyone who has seen a 322 Rated Miles at 100% charge?

vmulla | 2020年1月21日

To followup on @Joshan's post

Charged to 90% for the life of my car (2years, 52K miles) - ZERO ILL EFFECTS

There's a lot of good material that supports 90% charging is OK for practical purposes, and I'm giving a real-life example of my own car.

I think Tesla made battery management idiot-proof, someone would have to try and wreck the battery to see ill effects.*
--
* I'm oversimplifying everything to stay focused on how good tesla's battery management is, there's a lot of science - but do you need to know it all to enjoy your car?

vmulla | 2020年1月21日

If you want data to see how many times I charged, how much I charged etc I'll be happy to share :)
It will all just support these points
1) Tesla's battery management is awesome and perhaps idiot-proof
2) Tesla's batteries are awesome

Also, Tesla is one of the most efficient EVs out there - so whatever you're seeing on the screen, just know no other car can squeeze more mileage out of the stored energy

jallred | 2020年1月21日

I'm with vmulla.

The engineers involved in designing, building, and integrating the batteries in the car have spent many man hours looking at millions of charge cycles and many millions of miles to program the BMS. They even created custom ASICs to be part of the BMS.

They are under a lot of pressure to make sure the batteries last long term.

Trust them.

FISHEV | 2020年1月21日

OP was looking for his 322 total range, not a mea culpa for Tesla engineers.

Going to look at Tesla window stickers at the Mall to see if they say range is 310 or 322 for LR AWD. See if I can find mine.

Has anyone gotten 322 rated Model 3 that shows 322 miles as Rated Range at 100% battery charge?

vmulla | 2020年1月21日

The number on the screen is ESTIMATED range.
Rated range is something that the government puts out after their testing, no Tesla involvement in producing that number.
So, who do you trust with estimation/analysis? Tesla engineers, or the US Government? ;)

FISHEV | 2020年1月21日

"Rated range is something that the government puts out after their testing, no Tesla involvement in producing that number."

Rated range is actually what Tesla sells and must meet, just as other mfgs must meet their released EPA numbers. it is a number created solely by Tesla. After EPA tests are done, mfgs have to decide what MPG(E) to release for that model. It becomes a legal obligation for them. Typically mfgs. release a lower number vs actual tests.

We saw that with Tesla when it changed LR AWD from 310 Range to 322 Range, changing the MPGe number. Nothing changed with car, no new EPA tests, just using "bank" range to raise price by $500.

So back to this question, did the author's car ever have the 322 rating? If it never shows in Rated Range, likely no.

jonabramson | 2020年1月21日

Isn't the range calculated by your personal average of wh/mile? Hopefully, my math is correct. Mine used to be around 244 and now I have over 10k on it and it's more like 256 wh/mile. When I do updates, this is usually when I see the total estimated range go down. All this chatter over losing mileage should be based on your average wh/mile, not what was originally rated for. You'd have to range around 233 wh/mile to get 322 miles on a 75 KW battery on the LR. If you average .250 wh/mile, you'll be at 300 range.

So the real question is, how do you know your capacity is under 75 KW? That's when there is an issue.

leo33 | 2020年1月21日

Note that battery university has information about lithium-ion batteries in general, but not Tesla's specific battery chemistries. Tesla is pushing the state of the art. Trust the engineers from Tesla on how to treat Tesla's battery packs.

PSA: the fish is a known troll who has used multiple usernames over many years on this forum (and other forums) to spread narratives in apparent attempt to malign Tesla by instilling fear, uncertainty, and doubt. If you feel compelled to read his comments, be extremely skeptical of what he says.

Joshan | 2020年1月21日

90% from Tesla, ignore everyone else especially fishy fellows who lie.

What percentage should I charge the battery to?
Adjust how full the battery charges from the charge settings menu. For regular use, we recommend keeping your car set within the 'Daily' range bracket, up to approximately 90%. Charging up to 100% is best saved for when you are preparing for a longer trip.

https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/faq

RedPillSucks | 2020年1月21日

I don't get this. None of the ICE cars I've had over my 40+ years of driving have EVER gotten their EPA range numbers. I suspect this is the same for other people, yet I've never heard anyone complain about ICE car range. They just accept it and move on. My Toyota Camry Hybrid was suppose to get 44mpg but I was never able to get more than 40mpg, and before I sold it to get my Model 3, it only got 37mpg.

Joshan | 2020年1月21日

because it is just idiot shorters and morons posting this stuff...

Bighorn | 2020年1月21日

@jon
I’ve not seen anyone get more than 72-73 kWh out of a full charge, myself included. 75 is not accurate for these calculations. 234 Wh/m is parity with 310 rated miles which works out to 72.5 kWh.

FISHEV | 2020年1月21日

"You'd have to range around 233 wh/mile to get 322 miles on a 75 KW battery on the LR."

Cars Rated Range in WH/mi is on the Energy/Consumption screen.

Those with 322 rated LR AWD, their Rated Range line should be on 234 Wh/mi line while 310 rated LR AWD would have Rated Range on the 242 Wh/mi line.

Toggling between Battery Per Cent and Rate Range at current battery charge to show miles should show 322 vs. 310. Also the Battery degradation curves in TeslaFI.com and StatsApp should start at 322 miles not 310 miles.

Has anyone seen 322 show up for Rated Range?

calvin940 | 2020年1月21日

FISHEV, EAGLES, Whatever, you are a very sad and pathetic individual. Please leave and go haunt any of your other preferred auto vendors. Nobody wants you here. You are not welcome. You contribute nothing except lies and absolutely horrible math skills. Go away.

kaushal | 2020年1月21日

@vmulla
The number on the screen is ESTIMATED range.
Rated range is something that the government puts out after their testing, no Tesla involvement in producing that number.
So, who do you trust with estimation/analysis? Tesla engineers, or the US Government? ;)

I don't think that's the problem here. Everybody who has driven a vehicle (ICE or EV) for sometime knows these numbers are always "estimates"

The real issue is you charge to 100% when you got the car, the "estimate" always was 240 miles for several months, now it's 234 and I don't know why. I don't always charge to 90%, maybe every couple of months or so to 100% if I'm driving to someplace that's 175-200 miles from Atlanta. I have 12K miles in little over 9 months.

stingray.don | 2020年1月21日

Has anyone seen 322 show up for Rated Range?
__________________________________

The rated range for the 2020 Model 3 dual motor (non-P) is 322 according to the EPA. This applies to all 2020 Model 3 dual motor (non-P) cars. If you are asking if anyone has seen 322 miles show up in the battery meter range estimate at 100% SOC, then there haven't been any reports to support it. So I think it is safe to say the answer is no. However, it doesn't really matter as it would just be a change to the wh/mi constant and not an actual change to the vehicle.

stingray.don | 2020年1月21日

The real issue is you charge to 100% when you got the car, the "estimate" always was 240 miles for several months, now it's 234 and I don't know why. I don't always charge to 90%, maybe every couple of months or so to 100% if I'm driving to someplace that's 175-200 miles from Atlanta. I have 12K miles in little over 9 months.
______________

The battery meter range is just an estimate that will be influenced by external factors including temperature. It is not an indicator of battery health.

https://www.tesla.com/support/range

jallred | 2020年1月21日

Cars Rated Range in WH/mi is on the Energy/Consumption screen. -fish

When your first statement is patently false, nothing else you say matters.

Person on street: What's the range of that car?
Jack: about 240 wh/mi.

infofiles | 2020年1月21日

My car is 2020 AWD DM model, picked up end of 2019, it is supposed to get 322 on the meter. from day 1 max meter was at 310 and then following software update it went to 313. has never shown 322.

FISHEV | 2020年1月21日

"The real issue is you charge to 100% when you got the car, the "estimate" always was 240 miles for several months, now it's 234 and I don't know why"

I'd look at getting TeslaFI.com or StatsApp for Tesla. They take numbers the car produces and both have "Battery Health" displays which can give you the trend in your own battery capacity. We know that Li-ion batteries degrade over time www.batteryuniversity.com. How much depends on how you use them.

Here are two examples of Battery Health reports.

https://imgur.com/KU3rruD

As you can see, indvidual charges can be all over the map, it's the aggregate and average over time that are most reliable.

https://imgur.com/Ka0SdZU

I've lost about 3% after 8 months and 16,000 miles.

Also keep in mind that Tesla considers 10% per year/15% total by 2nd year as "Within Normal Limits" on battery degradation. Anything less than 30% over first eight years is also WNL so Tesla pretty much ignores the loss of capacity issues with owners.

infofiles | 2020年1月21日

to add to my case, yes my car was sold to me with rated range of 322. I dont care what math computer uses, right out the gate brand new max total charge miles was 310. tried twice and same result. why? when brand new, there is no driving condition, no habbit, nothing at all. Tesla tried to bullshit me about use, style etc. but hey, why does meter never showed 322 mile potential charge miles on this brand new car? why?

infofiles | 2020年1月21日

from 322 to actual 313 that I get, that is loss of 9 miles, OR 3% degradation. no?

WhiteWind | 2020年1月21日

Disengage and Flag Murky water troll.
Thanks

FISHEV | 2020年1月21日

" has never shown 322"

It's an odd situation as I don't think anyone has ever seen the 322 on their base Rated Range at 100%. Do you have paperwork that says it's 322 range and not a 310 range car?

How does Tesla prove car does have range of 322 and not 310?

FISHEV | 2020年1月21日

"from 322 to actual 313 that I get, that is loss of 9 miles, OR 3% degradation. no?"

More like lack of capacity to do the 322 if new car at 100% charge is just 313. Likely too new for degradation. Temp can affect battery capacity so if less than 70F that could cause the discrepancy. Temp has much greater effect on EVs than ICE vehicles.

jallred | 2020年1月21日

@infofiles,

If Tesla had said it was "Rated Range" and it didn't match, then you might be on to something.

But they don't call it that, it isn't that, so don't compare it.They just divide your usable battery capacity by a constant. If enough people complain they may change the constant. It won't change your battery.

The car is watching your battery health, if there is a problem you will hear about it.

stingray.don | 2020年1月21日

infofiles,

Relax. Tesla is just under reporting the range on the battery meter range estimate compared to EPA testing. Think if a gas powered car was EPA rated at 28 MPG, but the manufacturer was conservative and used 27 MPG to estimate range. The 2020 dual motor non-P is rated at 322 miles of range regardless of the wh/mi constant used in the battery meter range estimate.

stingray.don | 2020年1月21日

jallred,

Exactly, and better stated than my comment

FISHEV | 2020年1月21日

Your Rated Range should be on your car sticker. I looked on mine, LR AWD 2019 and has stated range of 310. None of the Teslas in the Mall showroom had stickers on them to see if Model 3 sticker changed the range to 322.

WhiteWind | 2020年1月21日

Flag alert. Troll detected.

yudansha™ | 2020年1月21日

Tesla told me to charge to 80%. Here: https://imgur.com/a/OTt56eN

WhiteWind | 2020年1月21日

Daaaaa

yudansha™ | 2020年1月21日

What da? People here are saying to 90%. Duh

stingray.don | 2020年1月21日

yudansha™ | January 21, 2020
What da? People here are saying to 90%. Duh
____________

Elon Musk said 90% was fine for daily charging. Although I agree that 80% would be better for battery health.

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