What option would get priority for you? AWD OR ADVANCED AUTOPILOT assuming they cost the same?

What option would get priority for you? AWD OR ADVANCED AUTOPILOT assuming they cost the same?

Now I know WE DO NOT KNOW THE M3 COST FOR THE NEW AUTOPILOT SYSTEM OR AWD ....this is purely a question ASSUMING pricing

I've seen a lot of people post AWD is on their list of must have options but now that Advanced autopilot is more expensive, what gets priority if you are trying to stick to a budget? Are you in a cold weather area and want the grip of AWD? Do you wanna maximize your zero to 60 time or add additional range?

If they both cost $5000 (again this is not fact just hypothetical pricing) what would be more important to you?

bernard.holbrook | 2016年10月21日

AWD. No contest.

KP in NPT | 2016年10月21日

Both. ;-)

Calibrotha2000 | 2016年10月21日

I know living in Cali we don't need AWD for weather purposes and I know for me being if my budget only allow D one I gott go with the advanced auto pilot the only AWD be fit would be increased acceleration and a few miles of range. When I test drive an S she let me feel it in AWD and in RWD literally couldn't tell the difference

EaglesPDX | 2016年10月21日

Autopilot (dynamic cruise, autobraking, lane keeping blind side and cross track warning) are necessities. AWD is a necessity to replace RWD for anyone who drives on snow.

It's a shame Tesla did not build a "working man's EV" with the T3. Going with a basic system for basic safety features as standard equipment vs. $5,000 option. Building AWD or FWD as standard.

Now Tesla is making the T3 even more expensive and complex with the Enhanced Autopilot and building in autonomous driving vs. going for a cheaper basic EV with solid standard features like AWD/FWD, safety features and max range.

akgolf | 2016年10月21日

It's not more expensive, it's still 35K. And safety features are standard.

You don't have to buy the options, but nice try.

EaglesPDX | 2016年10月21日

@jsimpsonalaska "And safety features are standard."

Are dynamic cruise, lane keeping, auto braking, blind side and cross track warnings standard or do they only come with autopilot?

jamilworm | 2016年10月21日

I would take AAP over AWD. I wasn't too fond of regular AutoPilot, but with the new features of automatically changing lanes without driver input and using freeway junctions it became a lot more appealing to me.

Calibrotha2000 | 2016年10月21日

Hahahahaha y'all are taking this argument from post to post hhahahahaha

Calibrotha2000 | 2016年10月21日

Hahahahaha y'all are taking this argument from post to post hhahahahaha

akgolf | 2016年10月21日

Are those all standard on the Dolt?

Tesla is aiming for 5 star ratings in all categories. Both the X and S are extremely safe cars to drive. I have no doubt the Model 3 will also be. But please if it makes you feel better and you feel a need to try and prop up your Dolt, continue with your drivel.

EaglesPDX | 2016年10月21日

So to answer the question, no. Dynamic cruise, lane keeping, blind side indicators, cross track warning are not standard and only come with the $5,000 option. So to the original question on Tesla options, activation of the already installed by disabled Enhanced Autopilot would be a necessity.

Lacking FWD the AWD would likely be a necessity for anyone driving in winter conditions as would the range extension because of the effects of winter driving on range. So a usable T3 is going to be $52K.

EaglesPDX | 2016年10月21日

@jsimpsonalaska "Tesla is aiming for 5 star ratings in all categories."

Five Star ratings are not comparable to Insurance Institute for Highway Safety ratings which are the gold standard. Tesla has not been tested by the IIHS. IIHS only buys cars retail vs, special arrangements with car mfgs. That and the low volume, high price of the Tesla has likely kept it from being tested.

Many cars with "auto braking" do not prevent crashes at speeds up to 25 mph.

akgolf | 2016年10月21日

It's been fun Eagles, but I don't think even you believe the lies you're posting here.

Good luck selling the Dolt.

KP in NPT | 2016年10月21日

You do not know what is standard and what is not or what options cost because it has not been announced so once again you are stating opinion as fact.

Oh so 5 star ratings are pooh-poohed now? If IIHS ratings were so important then it seems they should test all cars. Do they not test other cars in the same category as Tesla? Gimme a break.

akgolf | 2016年10月21日

And apparently the base Dolt won't be usable since it lacks the safety feature he seems keen on.

EaglesPDX | 2016年10月21日

@jsimpsonalaska " If IIHS ratings were so important then it seems they should test all cars."

They should but it gets impractical with low production high priced cars like Tesla. They may do it for the T3 as Tesla's first high volume vehicle.

It is the only test standard to go by. If you look at the low speed braking tests you can quickly see that "five star" ratings vary from not even slowing the car down to completely preventing a low speed collision. That is why the "five star" is not a useful standard.

akgolf | 2016年10月21日

Why don't you wait until the meds wear off before you post anything else tonight.

melinda.v | 2016年10月21日

the star rating system is the measure of likely injury in a wreck. So it is a useful standard.

Calibrotha2000 | 2016年10月21日

Who is this guy? Hahahahaha why is every post a statement of features and price that aren't confirmed? Like I've literally seen 10 threads with the exact same false info posted so why is someone so Anti Model 3 in every single model three post I'm confused? "A usable T3 will be 52k"
GTFOH -hahahahahah

zakeeus | 2016年10月22日

The Autopilot safety features are standard.
Nobody knows what it will cost on the M3
Tesla's RWD performs well in snow, plenty videos on YouTube about this
How are you getting to $52k. We already know AWD will be cheaper on the M3 and the only other option you mentioned is enhanced autopilot.
You don't know any more about the M3 than the rest of us so please stop pretending that you do.

KP in NPT | 2016年10月22日

@jsimpsonalaska and stop mixing them with booze. LMAO!

@Calibrotha he's our resident GM used car salesman. Pretending to have a Model 3 reservation while spreading continual FUD about the car he supposedly has reserved. What he doesn't realize is that he's only bolstering the belief many of us have about dishonest car salesmen. And giving GM a bad name.

WormtownKris | 2016年10月22日

Getting back to the original post...with the New England weather and aggressive local drivers, I'll take the added traction and power of AWD. Basic safety functions of AP will be standard, so that will be fine if I am only selecting one.

EaglesPDX | 2016年10月22日

@zakeeus "The Autopilot safety features are standard."

No they are a $5,000 option. Tesla recently noted it will activate the autobraking feature as this is becoming a standard safety requirement due to the efforts of Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. IIHS's testing shows a wide variation in performance of autobraking and has come up with a 6 point rating system based on crash tests.

A car can advertise "autobraking" but that only gains it 1 out of 6 points it gets two more for preventing a 12 mph crash and three more for preventing a 25 mph crash. Tesla has never been tested.

RWD performs terrible in the snow due to the understeer. FWD or AWD do the best. One or the other of those if one drives in winter weather. Had Tesla gone with FWD on the T3 it would have made the base $35K model more of a reality vs. a car that needs the AWD option.

The range extension is another necessity. So adding in the options needed to make it a safe car with decent range that can be used winter conditions gets you to $54,700 counting the $1,200 delivery fee.

Range $8,500
AWD $5,000
Autopilot $5,000

There are still $12K of options to add so the above "base model" would put one at the end of the delivery list when the $7,500 tax credit will be gone.

KP in NPT | 2016年10月22日

Wrong again @eagles. There is a difference between AP and AP safety features. EM specifically said that the safety features would be standard. Only the convenience features are extra.

KP in NPT | 2016年10月22日

Range is not a necessity. you do not even know what the true base battery range is. I have a smaller battery in my 70D - in fact about what the Volt range is, which I expect the base Model 3 to compete with - and that is more than enough range - even more so because of the supercharger network, which of course the Volt does not have.

But keep repeating your lies.

Pkalhan | 2016年10月22日

I think I would take the AWD over the advanced auto pilot. Living in Southwest PA our winters can suck so having the extra traction would be nice to have. Also, honestly, I do not think I would use auto pilot that often because I do enjoy driving and the idea of having a nice, somewhat, performance car like the M3, I would want to enjoy that experience if that makes any sense.

EaglesPDX | 2016年10月22日

@mp1156 " EM specifically said that the safety features would be standard."

As I noted above, autobraking is the only AP feature that is turned on standard according to Tesla: "All active safety technologies, including collision avoidance and autobraking will become available after December 2016".

Dynamic cruise, blind side indicators, cross track indicators require the AP package at $5K. By making the AP part of autonomous driving, Tesla is driving up the costs and getting away from the mission to promote sustainable driving.

Had the T3 been truly designed to meet a $35K price point it would have been FWD/AWD, 250 mile range, dynamic cruise, autobraking, blind side/cross track warnings as standard at the $35K.

Building in the autonomous driving features is driving the cost up to a real base of $55K as Tesla reverts to the old "bundled option" deal to recoup costs. As it stands, the T3 is just a slightly downsized TS in price and features.

KP in NPT | 2016年10月22日

ALL safety features. INCLUDING collision avoidance and auto braking.

That does not mean ONLY auto braking.

Reading is fundamental.

akgolf | 2016年10月22日

So why doesn't the Dolt have all of these safety features at the entry level?

EaglesPDX | 2016年10月22日

Pkalhan " Also, honestly, I do not think I would use auto pilot that often because I do enjoy driving."

It's the dynamic cruise that is key. It makes the morning and evening commutes in traffic much easier and much safer. Once you drive a car with dynamic cruise, it becomes a necessary feature. The additional safety features of blind side and cross track indicators also become necessities. Tesla isn't clear on the blind side/cross track safety features but fer shure dynamic cruise requires the $5K AP function.

Making Camel Back round trip on one charge will need the range upgrade.

akgolf | 2016年10月22日

And the Dolt is an extra 10K to get those features.

bastien.theron | 2016年10月22日

I've been looking at this forum since my reservation in April but this will be my first post.
To answer the question if you are interested by the two options but aren't sure if your budget will keep up, I would say to go with the AWD. My only reason for this choice is that you will be able to activate the AP later on (it will just cost a 1000$ more than if you do it when ordering the car, based on the model S/X price), since all the hardware will already be in the car, which won't be the case for AWD (it could be but I'd be VERY surprised).

Now I'd like to answer some false statement about our friend Eagles regarding the AWD. I live in Canada, so I know what snow is. It is absolutely NOT necessary to have AWD or FWD to drive in the snow. I've driven all type and you just need to have good winter tires, which is strongly recommended regardless of the traction of your car. Nowadays, with the drive assists, you won't feel the difference. You will see some Miata, RX-8, 350Z, BRZ, I3 or other RWD BMW, ect on the road in the winter, no problem there !
In my opinion, RWD has a much better driving feeling than FWD or AWD because you won't feel the torque applied on the wheels in your steering wheel. But I'm aiming to get my 3 with AWD because of the added performance, and AP will follow if I don't have the money right away.

A quick word on the "necessary" safety features : What is really necessary is to learn how to drive. But, those features are kinda cool when you have them.

akgolf | 2016年10月22日

AWD for sure and AP if it's in the budget. I can always add it later.

And for those that still have a hard time understanding that auto pilot safety features are standard, watch the video on the Model 3 page and pay attention around the 10:50 mark. That's where Elon states that auto pilot hardware is on all Model 3s, and of course that has changed to include hardware for autonomous driving. He also states there will be no additional cost to activate the safety features, they are standard. On the Dolt the safety features are part of a package you can buy.

EaglesPDX | 2016年10月22日

@bastioe.theron "It is absolutely NOT necessary to have AWD or FWD to drive in the snow."

That explains why the top 20 best selling cars in Canada are FWD or AWD.

Not necessary but who wants to have to use chains and have the worst performance in snow, higher accident rates, getting stuck more. Sure there are people with atavistic views who buy RWD cars but most who drive in snow go FWD or AWD.

With Tesla, there's the added fact that the AWD version has a 4% better range.

Wildcardtaylortesla | 2016年10月22日

AWD is a bargain considering it also gets you a little more range and performance, but I don't trust the AP until I see quite a bit of safety statistics. No contest.

bernard.holbrook | 2016年10月22日

@smalesh- I'm in Canada too and AWD beats RWD hands down. FWD usually beats RWD. I'm in Ottawa now and I would not buy a RWD to drive here because Ottawa is just too icy. I have driven a RWD Ford Mustang 5L in northern Alberta without issue because it's too cold to be slippery.

It really depends what your local weather is like but I don't think I'd buy RWD unless I moved to somewhere less icy.

zakeeus | 2016年10月22日

"That explains why the top 20 best selling cars in Canada are FWD or AWD."

No, the fact that that vast majority of vehicles are FWD or AWD explains that. If you have good tires and traction control, FWD doesn't have any significant advantage over RWD if any.

EaglesPDX | 2016年10月22日

@zakeeus "If you have good tires and traction control, FWD doesn't have any significant advantage over RWD if any."

Other than steering and traction. All the auto experts disagree with you. Tesla disagrees with you which is why they added AWD and why few Tesla's are sold without it except those in warmer climates and to drivers who don't go to colder ones.

In regard to T3, Tesla should have gone with a FWD to eliminate the need for AWD for the base care.

EaglesPDX | 2016年10月22日

@Wildcardtalortesla "but I don't trust the AP until I see quite a bit of safety statistics."

The stats are in on dynamic cruise and auto braking, a 35% drop in rear end collisions for cars equipped. A huge safety plus. Issue would be how good is Tesla's autobraking system as there are variations that IIHS has found in actual crash testing. Hopefully IIHS will test a Tesla system, maybe a post 2016 TS60D.

Because Tesla has bundled dynamic cruise into the $5,000 AP, it adds unnecessary cost to the car. $5,000 on a Tesla vs. $1,500 for IIHS top rated Eyesight system on a Subaru.

zakeeus | 2016年10月22日

@Eagles, just because AWD is better than RWD doesn't mean FWD is better than RWD, if it was, the Model S would have a FWD option.

EaglesPDX | 2016年10月22日

@zekeeus "just because AWD is better than RWD doesn't mean FWD is better than RWD,"

Correct. FWD is better than RWD because it performs way better on ice and snow independent of AWD considerations.

SamO | 2016年10月22日

RWD Tesla Models S is better than many (most) AWD 4WD on ice and snow.

bernard.holbrook | 2016年10月22日

@SamO- your link does not show any information on RWD vs AWD. I call B.S.

gekcut | 2016年10月22日

Neither, I'd spend the $5k on something else.

SamO | 2016年10月22日

The video is dated April 2014 many months prior to AWD.


skygraff | 2016年10月22日

While I'm a huge proponent of FWD in an ICE car with engine weight over the front wheels, aside from a little bit of protection against fish tailing (even an issue with traction control?), I don't see how FWD would be much (if any) better than RWD in almost all conditions. The S has been proven good in snow as an RWD vehicle.

Personally, I will be getting AWD but, other than the fact that it isn't a software upgrade like the AP options, there doesn't appear to be any logical reason to immediately dismiss the RWD if you are making such critical choices.

EaglesPDX | 2016年10月22日

@skygraff "Personally, I will be getting AWD"

As have 70% of Tesla's customers to date. I suspect that number will go up as the RWD only models don't exist anymore. Between range and winter weather handling, I would not be surprised to see Tesla discontinue the RWD version other than troll it for sales bait providing a "low cost" advertising price. Actually ordering and getting delivery of a RWD Tesla will become increasingly problematic.

bernard.holbrook | 2016年10月22日

@skygraff- RWD beat FWD in performance. That performance helped make the Tesla S the fantastic car that it is. The issue under contention is handling in ice and snow. My experience says that FWD or AWD beat RWD in ice and snow, there are tons of articles on the internet that explain why.

Would I want the model 3 or the S to be FWD? No, because performance makes those cars great. RWD cars are a blast to drive, as anyone who's driven a 911, Mustang, Corvette, ect knows. Because I drive in Canadian winters, I will be getting the AWD version. I would strongly recommend that anyone who drives in the snow buys the AWD option on their model 3.

EaglesPDX | 2016年10月22日

@beranard.holbrook "RWD beat FWD in performance."

The fastest (ie "performance") Teslas are all AWD not RWD.

jamilworm | 2016年10月22日

How has Eagles managed to hijack every thread? It seems like every new topic now turns into an argument about FWD vs RWD, fully optioned Model 3s getting priority, or the base Model 3 suddenly having a $50k base price. It makes it hard to follow the original topic.