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"Elon Musk teases new ‘Tesla Supercharger V3’ with over 350 kW power output and off-grid solar + Powerpacks"

"Elon Musk teases new ‘Tesla Supercharger V3’ with over 350 kW power output and off-grid solar + Powerpacks"

Wow! 350kw Supercharging would bring some percentage of charging near the time it takes to refuel an ICE. I'd assume the M3 would be capable of receiving this charge rate so if it indeed starts at $35k Tesla will crush all EV AND ICE competitors. Note that Elon hints that the 350kw figure is low.

https://electrek.co/2016/12/24/tesla-supercharger-v3-over-350-off-grid-s...

Bluesday Afternoon | 2016年12月24日

The impact on ICE transportation will be profound!

BigD0g | 2016年12月24日

I hope S3 will be compatible with current gen cars.....

Haggy | 2016年12月24日

Even if the current cars can't handle it, it will do away with the A|B sharing issue, at least until cars catch up. Even then, it could still allow current cars to charge at the maximum rate without impacting the others. Given that current cars start at a certain rate and then slow down, there might be room for a speed increase for mostly discharged batteries, but in terms of faster trips it might mean 3-4 stops for five minutes on a day long trip rather than getting to 100% super fast. Current chargers have far more power than what they deliver to mostly charged cars as it is.

tes-s | 2016年12月24日

soon

djmichaelmayhem | 2016年12月24日

That is basically 3 times faster than current. But I don't think the battery could handle that type of current all at once.

carlk | 2016年12月24日

Anyone who thinks Tesla will allow competition to catch up has a lot to learn about Elon and his company.

Silver2K | 2016年12月24日

Elon has created amazing vehicles that are way ahead of their time in tech, , design, safety, quickness and quality. The one thing Tesla lacks is fit and finish. This is a very important part of the overall appearance of the vehicle that needs major attention.

Elon needs to stop worrying about speed and worry about fit and finish.

AmineTx | 2016年12月24日

Game changer.
@SilverP85plus They hired Anders Bell, They are looking into improving the anterior looks and feel

p.c.mcavoy | 2016年12月24日

@AmineTx - What @Silver is talking about is not interior looks and feel. It's about build quality. That is not about styling, it's about executing the design with quality manufacturing every time.

Silver2K | 2016年12月24日

Build quality is fine, the finish is off a bit. Like the chrome around the windows is off a bit for example. That needs attention.

AmineTx | 2016年12月24日

Oh ok.

TaoJones | 2016年12月24日

Panel misalignment, paint blemishes, poor detail quality, bad trim alignment, poor door fit and hinge adjustment.

These are the things you should very carefully inspect and/or bring someone with you who knows what they're looking it when you pick up your car at the factory. Or if you must, when you accept delivery at your location.

AoneOne | 2016年12月24日

More powerful superchargers suggest that cars will be able to charge more quickly. We have been told that the current cell design cannot be charged more quickly without unacceptable long-term degradation. Perhaps the new 2170 Gigafactory cells are better in this respect and could safely accept a full charge in a half-hour or less. If so, this would be a great advance.

SamO | 2016年12月24日

@AoneOne,

Do you have a cite for current cell design is incapable,of accepting higher charge? I've never seen anything so definitive.

tes-s | 2016年12月24日

Current pack in my S85 does not accept more than 110kW after about 20% SOC. P100D pack probably does not accept more than 110kW after 40% SOC.

tes-s | 2016年12月24日

Would be nice if the 350kW was shared across 4 stalls. Much better than the 2x120kW across 4 stalls.

bp | 2016年12月25日

We've been waiting for AP 2.0 - it's here now.

We've been waiting for 100D (not interested in spending $40K for the P100D, with range that will likely be less than a 100D) - and that will hopefully be here soon.

If we can road trip charge in 5-10 minutes with SC V3, that likely means we'll defer our next Model S purchase until there's confirmation we can purchase a car that either supports it, or can be upgraded after purchase.

With Musk's tweet, unless SC V3 is imminent, they may have some potential sales delayed until they can announce SC V3 support for new and hopefully at least some existing cars.

martin | 2016年12月25日

Ok Folks, some math to cool you down this Xmas day.
350 kW at 300A requires a battery voltage of ~1 kV which is far from the current 400V.
So what Elon is really saying is that the battery design is about to change drastically to get charge times down as well as the charging current.
To do it offgrid with solar requires a lot of real estate to accomodate both panels and battery packs.
Will we see SCs with 350kW per stall? I doubt it.
Will the SC V3 be compatible with the current fleet? As long as the connector remains the same, yes (did I hear someone say "CCS"?).

omega | 2016年12月25日

All of these incoming changes makes me think I will keep my P85DL for a long time unless I want to throw all of my money into cars which makes no sense. Though times are coming every where in the world...

p.c.mcavoy | 2016年12月25日

I'm all for quicker charging. I doubt many EV owners would say longer range and quicker charging are bad things. However, I'm with some of the others that have commented here that changes to the battery pack and other parts of the system likely need to change to take advantage of charging rates 2-3x faster than today. I also agree that the quickest benefits for existing owners would be if this means the end to supercharger pairing so for heavily used superchargers all uses can have the benefit of charging at the max rate their car can sustain.

As for the footprint needed for solar, pay close attention to what Elon stated in one of the later tweets -

"Yes, grid won't be needed for moderate use Superchargers in non-snowy regions"

Key the moderate use statement. If a supercharger is only lightly utilized and you have a sufficiently large Powerwall installation to buffer the demand peaks, then going off the grid, or at least grid neutral (inflow = outflow) is possible over the long term even though the solar installation can not support the peak demand.

Have a good holiday everyone, and congrats to all the new owners that received a substantial present from Santa in the past couple days. My 16 year old daughter had to be content with the MS HotWheels car in her stocking, and not the P100D she keeps dreaming about. She hasn't been THAT good this year (an my insurance premium couldn't survive the hit!).

tes-s | 2016年12月25日

Pariing has minor impact in charging time in most cases - worst case (pulling in right after an empty P100D) is about 30 mins, with likely case much less. A 120kW charger can put out 180kWh in 1.5 hours - enough to fully charge 2 P100Ds from empty.

A 350kW shared across 4 (even 5 or 6) stalls would likely be as fast as 4 stalls with dedicated 120kW chargers.

Bighorn | 2016年12月25日

@tes-s
With the imposed taper, your 90 minute math is overly optimistic for the second car that comes in empty. Remember it's not an even share--it's 75:25.

martin | 2016年12月25日

We all know, Bighorn, that Tes-s's "math" is purely academic and does not stand up to reality. Whenever I had to use a paired slot charging was incredibly slow - for both paired slots.
However I agree with Tes-s on one point. Spreading a 350 kW DC converter across 4 slots will ease site complexity without much impact for three users of such slots.

martin | 2016年12月25日

Why not use two such converters for 8 slots over a single crossbar connection? Each slot would then only need an inverter to adjust voltage and current individually.

SUN 2 DRV | 2016年12月25日

Elon barely teased anything about a higher powered SC... he only mentioned SC3 in relation to inclusion of solar...

And he didn't mention ANYTHING about a faster charging car.... so I think this whole discussion about dramatically faster charging times is waaay premature...

tykayn | 2016年12月25日

Strauber said on Electreck that it was planned to have supercharging able to fully refill a battery in around 10 minutes.
Elon mocked the 350KW power like if this was a limit for child toys, it may be very much more. in Europa 4 car makers planned to put 300KW chargers for their EV.

these new superchargers would be great if batteries could not be damaged too much.

BigD0g | 2016年12月25日

V3 I bet equals robo probe for automated charging

BigD0g | 2016年12月25日

V3 I bet equals robo probe for automated charging

Tropopause | 2016年12月25日

Lithium batteries for the r/c hobby world charge between 1C-3C. Most still recommend 1C charge rate.

1C for a P100D is 100kWh
2C for a P100D is 200kWh
3C for a P100D is 300kWh

Of course tapering occurs as battery gets full. Longevity may be adversely affected at charge rates higher than 1C.

I hope Tesla can work some magic with the products coming out the Gigafactory.

AoneOne | 2016年12月25日

@SamO: I'm sorry that it wasn't clear when I said "Perhaps..." and "If so..." that I was extrapolating from the promise of higher-power charging to the possibility of cells that can make use of the higher power. It was just my hopeful imagination, just like the recent post by @Tropopause.

Haggy | 2016年12月25日

"Pariing has minor impact in charging time in most cases"

If you went to an older location such as Tejon Ranch (might not apply since they recently redid things there) you might have found a line, and since it was lower power than newer locations, you might have been charging at a rate of under 100 miles of range added per hour. When Harris Ranch was the closest supercharger north of there, you needed at least 150 miles of range to play it safe. If you just missed being the first of a pair (happened to me in reverse where the next guy got 100 mph) then you better hope the person you are paired with doesn't plan to stick around long. In that situation, I charged enough to have enough range to move on so the next person could get a decent charge, and the guy next to me knew nothing about how paired chargers work. If you change things to 350kW shared, the second person would charge three times as fast starting off. That's a huge difference in charge time and trip time. It means owners won't have to know or care about how anything is paired. There were times I was paired there, because half the spaces were in use. Chances were that the next person to leave wouldn't be the one I was paired with, which happened. and moving to another space sped things up tremendously. It's far better when people don't have to move their cars in the middle of charging for the benefit of several who are charging.

Milly Amp | 2016年12月25日

So what Elon is really saying is that the battery design is about to change drastically to get charge times down as well as the charging current.
To do it offgrid with solar requires a lot of real estate to accomodate both panels and battery packs.
Will we see SCs with 350kW per stall? I doubt it.
Will the SC V3 be compatible with the current fleet? As long as the connector remains the same, yes (did I hear someone say "CCS"?).

Not following, sorry. So the battery needs to drastically change but yet it still could be be compatible with current fleet ?

tes-s | 2016年12月25日

@BH - I didn't say the current chargers could charge two P100Ds in 90 minutes - I said the kWh the chargers put out in 1.5 hours (180kWh) is enough to charge two P100Ds.

No more than a 30-minute penalty for charging from any SOC to any other SOC in a shared supercharger vs being alone.

The one exception I came across is if someone pulls in to a supercharger empty with a cold battery just before you. Then you could be waiting a long time to get your charge. Fortunately, I only needed to add about 15kWh to make it home, but took almost 30 minutes instead of 10.

tes-s | 2016年12月25日

They are NOT putting solar AT most supercharger locations - though they may put solar at other locations so the total solar generation equals the amount used at superchargers.

The are NOT making battery packs that can accept 350kW anytime soon.

I tried out the 1440kW supercharger in Tarrytown. Didn't charge any faster than the 120kW supercharger in Milford.

tes-s | 2016年12月25日

Actually, Tarrytown is only 720kW....

martin | 2016年12月26日

Tes-s, you did not really expect your car to charge any faster did you? How could it? It is your car that is deciding how fast it will charge and the current battery voltages of between 350V and 400V with a maximum current of 320A limit peaknpower to 120 kW no matter how much the charger will provide.
To go much beyond the 120 kW Tesla will have to change the connector to CCS and off course increase the battery voltage to more than 600V.
My guess is we will see both within the next 2 years.

tes-s | 2016年12月26日

No, I did not expect it to charge faster at the 720kW charger vs the 120kW charger. Nor would I expect to see any car charge faster on the 350kW charger.

I agree the battery voltage has to increase before it can charge with much more power.

Does the charger tweet before the battery tweet mean they have to upgrade superchargers to handle the higher-voltage batteries? It would be very confusing to have a new battery and a limited list of superchargers that would work. Let's see when the new installations are with the upgraded 350kW supercharger, and when they start retrofitting the existing ones.

bp | 2016年12月27日

To benefit from faster charging will likely require both the faster charges and changes to the cars/battery packs - which is why we may defer purchasing our next Model S until Tesla either confirms SC V3 is included, or that it can be added later as an upgrade.

Our next Model S will be our long road trip car. Reducing supercharging stops to 5-10 minutes is a game changer - and worth waiting for.

Ruby110 | 2016年12月27日

Where is the information on Tarrytown being 720kW? I didn't see it in the TMC discussion thread.

Thanks.