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Glass roof

Glass roof

Will the model 3 glass roof be a option or standard in all model 3 cars ?

I would prefer to have a standard metal roof. What do others think ?

jordanrichard | 2017年2月4日

From the B-pillar back will be glass. The section above the 2 front seats is said to be metal, movable glass, or fixed in place glass. My guess is that the currnt full glass roof on the MS will be available on the M3.

bmalloy0 | 2017年2月4日

What I'm sure jordanrichard meant was, "No one knows for sure, but the well-sourced rumors are..."

Nothing final has been officially announced as of yet.

andy.connor.e | 2017年2月4日

It seemed like the glass was supposed to be the standard, but it would be safer to assume that its not. Better to always assume worst case scenario.

JeffreyR | 2017年2月4日

@bmalloy0
VP of Engineering is on the record during the 1st Unveiling for those options. I believe you can hear it here:

https://youtu.be/xALkzcC0r5I

bmalloy0 | 2017年2月4日

@JeffreyR, I was unaware of how my words tasted, thank you!

Red Sage ca us | 2017年2月5日

Well, the 'current full glass roof' for the Model S does not have a roof support between/across the B-pillars. It has them at the A-pillar and C-pillar instead. Personally, I hope the three glass panels are Standard on Model ☰ and that the metal roof and glass sunroof at the front row of seating are both optional. This hope is based upon the fact there is no metal roof option for the Model X (unless it was added while I wasn't looking).

topher | 2017年2月5日

"* The Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price excludes destination freight charge, tax, title, license, dealer fees and optional equipment." -- Chevy Bolt website

Thank you kindly.

Frank99 | 2017年2月5日

Oh get off the PV roof already. Your constant harping on a non-existent feature is tiresome.

dyefrog | 2017年2月5日

What's your source for the PV glass roof? Without a source it's just conjecture, therefore, ignored like pretty much everything you post.

Frank99 | 2017年2月6日

Another wishful post stated as fact from E.
If you flag his post, please flag this one also.

JeffreyR | 2017年2月6日

@bmalloy0 at least you took it in stride. Well played!

Bluesday Afternoon | 2017年2月6日

It seems our "stir the pot" friend is not wrong in saying Tesla is planning on having a solar glass roof as an option for the Model 3:

http://www.ecowatch.com/musk-dicaprio-before-the-flood-2077472087.html

Frank99 | 2017年2月6日

That's a badly twisted article. EM said they'd be using the same glass for roof panels and Model 3 roof, but not that the Model 3 roof would have solar cells. When asked directly whether the Model 3 would have solar cells, his answer was "We'll probably offer that as an option", where it was unclear whether this was a statement of reality or simple sarcasm given the lack of utility of solar cells in a vehicle roof.
I've asked E numerous times for a quote indicating that anyone associated with Tesla has actually said there'd be PV in the roof. He's never been able to - and the article you're pointing at doesn't either.

Bluesday Afternoon | 2017年2月6日

@Frank99

Elon specifically states using solar glass would be "strongly net positive" when used in a car application!
-------------------
"While Musk didn't give specific details about how the solar glass would work on a car, he later tweeted that the tiles would feature heating elements that can defrost a windshield or melt snow on the car roof all while generating energy at the same time."

"When asked by a Twitter user whether the tiles would be working overtime as a defroster and a generator, Musk replied that the process will be “strongly net positive," or that it will use minimal energy."
---------------------------
In my opinion (and, in no way am I a fan of PDX!), solar glass (windshield, top, and/or side windows) will be an option for the Model 3. The harder/more relevant question is, "Will solar glass be an option on the initial Design Studio for the Model 3?"

When Elon states in a tweet:

Just A. Tinker @John_Gardi
@elonmusk Folks are misinterpreting your words about using in-house glass tech on Model 3, They think you'll embed solar panels in the roof!

Elon Musk ✔@elonmusk
@John_Gardi We will probably offer that as an option

It's quite clear Elon plans on it being an option. Again, the question is when? if it's available at the start I'll definitely order it!!!

Frank99 | 2017年2月6日

The "strongly net positive" was a comment on solar roofing tiles with a defrost capability, and had nothing to do with EVs. That's part of the bad twist in that article. It also leaves out the tweet following the "offer it as an option" one: - the deployable solar shield.
https://twitter com/elonmusk/status/792220517654597633
https://twitter com/elonmusk/status/794580586379624448
The question is whether you can take "offier it as an option" seriously when followed by the ridiculous concept of a "deployable shield"

Bluesday Afternoon | 2017年2月6日

@Frank99

I live in sunny Southern California, even though it's raining today, and would love to see my Model 3 with solar glass. If you are correct I'll treat you to the best burger in Orange County. ;-)

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/model-3-search-best-burger-joints?...

topher | 2017年2月7日

Eagles once again making statements about which he knows nothing.

1. It is easy to see that Tesla is charging $1,500 MORE for the all glass roof on the Model S. Which probably means it is more expensive, but NO ONE HERE KNOWS.

2. No car roof costs $10,000, so even if the glass roof was cheaper, it wouldn't make up for this COMPLETELY FICTITIOUS $45,000 cost. NO ONE HERE KNOWS what the car will cost Tesla, but companies don't stick around losing $10,000 on each of half a million cars per year. We can thus assume the Model 3 will cost less than $35,000.

3. Solar PV glass would be MORE expensive, so much for the cheaper idea. And PV covering just the glass would never give 5%, of the cars ENERGY capacity (NOT power). 2kWh is about the maximum under ideal conditions.

When Eagles post is flagged, please flag this one.

Thank you kindly.

andy.connor.e | 2017年2月7日

^

Everyone please remember that Eagles is making claims as if that is true.
Please make sure you keep reminding yourself that we dont know any details yet, and none of the above stated has been confirmed. Thanks.

JHB10 | 2017年2月8日

Glass roof would probably be more expensive.
Not because of the glass, but because the surrounding roof structure has to be inforced, probably using more expensive materials to still keep the weight down.

Quinten | 2017年2月15日

Living in high desert area getting a glass roof would like nice but very bad when summer hits 120F.

Frank99 | 2017年2月15日

Model S owners here in Phoenix have said it isn't an issue. I'll have to get a test drive come June to check that out...

andy.connor.e | 2017年2月15日

As long as the tint they give the glass blocks most infrared, you'll be fine.

janendan | 2017年2月15日

Tint implies visible light blockage. There are thin PV films being tested that block NIR and IR yet remain transparent.
The question is how big are the windows and what is the percentage efficiency. Any guesses on the potential watts assuming 15%? Maybe 500? 1K? 5Kwh/day in the sun? 25miles/day added to the battery?

janendan | 2017年2月15日

I'd rather have something like this than tinted glass. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/02/170202090752.htm

Frank99 | 2017年2月15日

One of the big problems of a PV solar roof in a car is heat.

Tesla has stated their standard glass roofs block 81% of the heat that would come through a clear glass roof. This is a result of blocking IR and UV as well as a percentage of visible light.

If you wish to install solar panels, blocking incoming solar radiation is necessarily something you wouldn't want to do. The Solar cells will convert some of the incoming radiation into electricity (about 20%); the rest of the solar radiation will become heat inside the car. So, you get about 19% heat from incoming solar radiation with a normal Tesla glass roof, and 80% if you try to put solar cells in the roof. Using a standard solar reflectance of 0.57 for white paint, and assuming that the absorbed heat is equally radiated by the interior and exterior surface of the roof, a white metal roof would transport about 28% of the solar radiation into the interior as heat. That makes the Tesla Glass roof a bit better than a white-painted metal roof.

If you assume a 6' x 6' roof area (Let's call it 4 m^2), parked on a 30 degree hill tilting the roof south, on a clear day in Los Angeles or equivalent latitude, with no shading, at noon, you might get (1000 w / m^2) * 4 m^2 * 20% = 800 watts of electricity generated. Note that your results will be less than this, likely by half or more. You'll also get the equivalent of a 3200 watt heater warming up your interior due to the inefficiency of the solar cells. With the standard glass roof, you'll get the equivalent of only a 760 watt heater warming up your interior, but no electricity. The Metal roof fits in nicely at 1100 watts.

Why again would you want to put solar cells in the roof of your car?

topher | 2017年2月15日

"Any guesses on the potential watts assuming 15%? Maybe 500? 1K? 5Kwh/day in the sun? 25miles/day added to the battery?"

1kW of total sunlight hits every square meter (under ideal conditions). Horizontal arrangement of panels reduces this to about 5kWh per day (at best in US). 15% efficiency is good for visible light portions of the spectrum, in the IR, it would be much lower. So, daily gathering is more like 500Wh per day. So < 2 miles per day added, if one were to leave the car outside in full sun all day. Probably more than that would be required to cool the car.

Thank you kindly.

Garyeop | 2017年2月15日

Ok, we remove the photovoltaic and go with a steam engine electric generator.

akgolf | 2017年2月16日

Or wind turbines!

andy.connor.e | 2017年2月16日

Or use your feet and theres no need for a battery or motor.

dsvick | 2017年2月16日

@akgolf - "Or wind turbines"

You are not going to bring up that whole conversation again, are you? The correct answer is "No, I'm not and I'm sorry I mentioned it after all of the pain and suffering the original discussion caused."

Quinten | 2017年2月16日

I like the idea of using hamsters on a running wheel ties to a dynamo motor to generate electricity.

akgolf | 2017年2月16日

Sorry dsvick about the wind turbines.

I thought the conversation turned to things that won't be on the Model 3. Eagles joined in on the fun with the impossible solar panels.

Mapowing | 2017年2月16日

@chesapeake410

EM did make it sound like the Model 3 would have glass roof as a standard due to headroom feel.
I do prefer metal roof since our scorching sun in the Vegas desert during summer is unforgivable! I reckon it would take more power to cool down the car if it sits out in the sun...

Frank99 | 2017年2月16日

>>>Because Elon Musk says if you choose the solar roof option it will provide 2-4% of the yearly energy requirements of the car in addition to reducing power use by providing a full sun shield.

I must have missed that quote; can you point me to it? Of course not, because you're making stuff up again.

jordanrichard | 2017年2月17日

Mapowing, Elon didn't just make it sound like they went to a glass roof for headroom reasons, he flat out said that was the reason. You gain 2-3 inches by removing the cross member that you see in the MS.

Many people are making comments about the scorching sun like as if Tesla is just going to put clear glass on the roof. There are thousands upon thousands of MS's in areas that get intense sun and yet you don't hear about people getting sunburns or sun stroke. I am 100% sure that Tesla will make the glass roof like the MS and X and that is with the ability to block 100% UV rays and 85% of the heat.

Per one of the engineers at the reveal, the entry level roof will be metal, above the 2 front seats.

tnkplatoon18 | 2017年2月17日

I have mixed feelings about the Glass roof option/or not option. Yes it looks amazing on the Model S and X and I am sure it will as well on the 3. However my current vehicle doesn't even have a sunroof and I am just find without it. Then I am left to consider the factor of insulation and warmth in cooling months how much more energy do I need to expend to heat the inside of the vehicle with the glass roof option vs not having the glass roof?

So if it comes standard then, great! If not and it is indeed an option then maybe not...still not decided.

topher | 2017年2月17日

"Per one of the engineers at the reveal, the entry level roof will be metal, above the 2 front seats."

He said, three options, metal, glass, and opening glass. No mention was made of which was standard or entry.

Thank you kindly.

Quinten | 2017年2月17日

@ Mapowing. I too think about the hot condition where I live too. I am not sure it is feasible to upgrade putting 1.5 to 2K for a small glass roof. Getting metal roof too might not make much of different on the sun ray during driving in the afternoon vs. the car parked. From viewing the M3 from top you can pretty much see the front windshield and back glasses extends really far. So for me, paying the extra upgrade doesn't make much sense. I hope the metal roof can be a sunroof too with a sliding cover or an option for it.

dsvick | 2017年2月17日

Getting the pano roof gets you the best of both worlds, you get the view of all the glass and, if it really does get too warm, you can crack it open to vent the heat.

jordanrichard | 2017年2月17日

topher, touché, however, a metal "roof" above the 2 front seats would certainly be cheaper to build than a movable glass panel and associated motor/wiring. So I applied logic to make the statement that the metal roof would be the entry level.

topher | 2017年2月17日

"a metal "roof" above the 2 front seats would certainly be cheaper to build than a movable glass panel"

Probably, but there is another option, a fixed glass panel. Now the (retrofitted) fixed glass panel in the Model S, is more expensive than a metal roof, so thinking the same for the Model 3 isn't out of line. But mostly WE DON'T KNOW.

Thank you kindly.

Badbot | 2017年2月17日

I finally solved perpetual motion.
I will pull my 3 with a horse.
you get 3 guesses of the horses name.

Frank99 | 2017年2月18日

1. Perhaps.
2. Nope. Likely to be cooler.
3. Not a chance.

topher | 2017年2月18日

"Well we do know a few things."

No. We know none of those things.

1) The only (thin) evidence we have is that the glass roof will be more expensive.
2) Heat energy build up is a very complicated problem, I do it for a living, and wouldn't commit to an answer without more information.
3) We don't even know what any particular car's energy needs are, it depends primarily on distance driven per day but many things affect it. And of course PV output is dependent on climate, location, angle, temperature, season....

Flag please.

Thank you kindly.

Rocky_H | 2017年2月18日

Is it June 14th yet? (Flag Day)

Red Sage ca us | 2017年2月18日

July 14th is better (Bastille Day, and my birthday too).

Sandy’s 3 | 2017年2月18日

Why does this guy bother.....Its sooo nice to ignore on TMC

Sandy’s 3 | 2017年2月18日

Why does this guy bother.....Its sooo nice to ignore on TMC

Red Sage ca us | 2017年2月18日

batfat: When using the Chrome web browser on a PC, it is possible to add an extension that allows you to block posts from particular forum users. It does not work with iOS or Android devices though. The 'Tesla Forum Enhancement Suite 1.0.4' is available at the Chrome Web Store.

https://chrome.google com/webstore/detail/tesla-forum-search/ejeomehgfbgdeefpjnpbpiopckcebnin?hl=en-GB

Sandy’s 3 | 2017年2月18日

Many thanks man! Appreciate it! (And your forum posts as well)

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