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Base model with biggest battery?

Base model with biggest battery?

I want an affordable model 3 but with the biggest battery ( 75 kWh).
I am afraid that the big battery is only available in a package with "ludicrous mode" or AWD or some other "luxury" options, which makes it maybe more expensive than I planned
What do you think?

Pkalhan | 2017年6月3日

@danielebernd I do not think they would make a 75kWh battery part of ludicrous mode because that would then eliminate a lot of people like you and/or me (not sure what I am going to do yet) from getting the bigger battery. I think we will all be able to get the bigger battery without it being in a package, but I guess we will have to wait next month to find out. It is tough waiting and not knowing. I only fear that they make the bigger battery a very high up-charge ($10k to $15k) which would then eat up most of my budget. I hope they do not do that and make the upgrade a little more reasonable.

gatorj31 | 2017年6月3日

I'm thinking / hoping the battery upgrade will be sub $6K. Anything over this and it's not worth the upgrade for me. I highly doubt it will be part of a premium package. It will be a tough decision between auto pilot and the battery upgrade, but I think I can handle and extra stop or 2 to charge if the car is driving itself :)

gatorj31 | 2017年6月3日

Plus I can just drive slower to get extra range.

LA-Fohlen | 2017年6月3日

I had the impression that Tesla will release the car with two different battery packs but AWD won't be available at production start but maybe at the end of 2017 or into 2018.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 2017年6月3日

Due to a very good argument posed by Rocky_H, I now think this is highly unlikely, but this is how I proposed this request might be fulfilled once upon a time...

If Tesla allows Model 3 to be built with one physical battery pack initially, that holds perhaps 75 kWh of energy, the base version of the car could be software limited to allow perhaps 55 kWh to 60 kWh of usable capacity. Someone who purchased the base car could also opt for the unlock option so that they got a Model 3 75 with Rear Wheel Drive.

So, this presumes also that at some later date, a higher capacity battery pack, perhaps 90 kWh would appear, though only for Dual Motor All Wheel Drive Cars, and possibly only for Performance editions of the car.

This would be a means to drive home the point that Tesla is most interested in the majority of Model 3 being sold to those who accept that 60 kWh or 75 kWh, delivering 250 to 315 miles range, is 'enough', while only those who specifically were seeking the utmost in performance would get a Model 3 P90D as a minority of purchases.

Thus, I would see the product line as something like this:

___ Model 3 60 RWD ___ 225-to-250 miles
___ Model 3 75 RWD ___ 269-to-299
___ Model 3 60D AWD ___ 239-to-266
___ Model 3 75D AWD ___ 286-to-318
___ Model 3 P90D AWD ___ 303-to-336

Iwantmy3 | 2017年6月3日

Red,
Elon has said that the maximum size possible for the 3 is 75KWH. The 90 is not an option as things stand today

stevenmaifert | 2017年6月3日

My wife will be the primary driver of our M3. She wants the longest range battery that will be offered, but not a lot of other frills. I certainly hope they will make the battery size a stand alone option and not part of an up-sell package full of things not wanted. That could be a deal breaker for us.

Ehninger1212 | 2017年6月3日

I'll bet you will be able to order the largest battery with no other added features. Currently you can order a 100D with nothing extra besides the "included" air suspension and high amp charger.

I certainly hope so, I would like to be able to prioritize certain items based on price.

TeslaTap.com | 2017年6月3日

I can't imagine Tesla installing a larger battery and software limiting it in the 3. It's a great way to lose money (or lose more money), especially at the volumes Tesla plans. It's also been stated by Tesla (a year ago) the base model will be below 60 kWh. My guess is 55 kWh, but then Tesla may have changed it's plan too, so we really don't know what the base battery will be. A logical sizes might be 55 kWh, 65 kW and 75 kW. With the Model S original pricing, 60 to 85 (15 kW)h added $8K to the price (adjusting for $2k Supercharger cost). In theory, with lower battery costs, the differential will be less.

Iwantmy3 | 2017年6月3日

Tesla is in the process of simplifying the number of models on the S the to 75, 100, and 100P. I can't imagine that they would have more than two battery sizes for the 3. Based on the recent leak, it looks like 60 and 75

georgehawley.fl.us | 2017年6月3日

I agree with @Iwantmy3 and others who foresee two discrete battery sizes.

Marketing 101 suggests the a larger battery capacity will be a popular option and a typical way to bump up the income from sales of the Model 3 would be to bundle the popular option with some other optional features to create a Premium Upgrade Package. Sound familiar?

CraigW | 2017年6月3日

Actually, current rumor has it that the initial run of cars will be equipped with the 75kWh battery. You will only be able to get a 60kWh if you wait 6-9 months. That also means the base price you can get at first will be greater than $35,000. Probably in the range of $4,000-$5000 for the larger battery.

Itrnhds | 2017年6月3日

Will the bigger battery be available as soon as production begins, is the performance and awd the only options being delayed til next year?

akgolf | 2017年6月3日

There is no way Tesla won't have the base Model available immediately. The PR on that would not be good.

georgehawley.fl.us | 2017年6月3日

Headline: "TESLA UNABLE TO LIVE UP TO $35,000 PRICE PROMISE FOR MODEL 3"

I don't think so.

basboer1976 | 2017年6月4日

I would take the bigger battery over autopilot,you can add on the autopilot software at another point in time

stevenmaifert | 2017年6月4日

@CraigW - You could be on to something there. The initial run on the Model S was 85 kWh battery only with air suspension until after 1/1/13. A true base model with the 40 kWh wasn't available until much later.

Pkalhan | 2017年6月4日

decisions decisions...i def want AWD so I will be waiting regardless. i think using @basboer1976 has the strategy I think I will follow to stay within budget. Get AWD with bigger battery (plus other options) and get EAP at another time. If smaller battery will be delayed ever further than AWD, I think that is the only option for me because waiting even longer would be tough.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 2017年6月4日

Iwanty3: Please check out Elon's actual quote. There is 'wiggle room' among the qualifiers. Things like 'current chemistry' and 'at this time' are not said without purpose. I believe there is more than one reason the introduction of Performance editions has been... deferred. Among them may be (yes, that's a qualifier) the possibility of a higher capacity battery pack than most expect possible, viable, or likely in an 'affordable car' that is profitable to build.

TeslaTap: That is essentially the argument against a software locked battery pack as put forth by Rocky_H. However, I remain your Friendly Neighborhood Over-the-Top Optimistic Tesla Certified Apologist Fanboy. As such, it is perfectly OK with me that you are most likely to say, "I told you so!" when I am wrong... As long as I am granted the opportunity to reserve the right to say the same -- if I happen to be correct -- even when there is only the slightest hint of a faint possibility of that taking place. In other words, I call dibs on Tesla doing something very surprising that is against the expectations wrought by traditional business methods.

President georgehawley: Correct. Tesla must make sure the base version of Model 3 is actually available for purchase and a tempting/compelling proposition from the outset. Not put off until later on, not deferred, not delayed at all. Because the headlines would go on as a narrative of Tesla missing their goal for DECADES. This is among the reasons why dual motor all wheel drive and Performance options will not be available in July. The hope is to head off HaterAde infused press that is certain to claim the Model 3 is a very impressive $60,000 car that is 'not for everyone' and whatnot (after ticking every single conceivable option box while ordering) and never actually covering the trim line prices. As it is, some are bound to round up anyway, saying it costs $42,000 to $50,000 no matter what Tesla does. But at least such lies can be directly corrected with evidence to the contrary. Personally, I reccomend that Tesla only offer the base version of the car to the press corps for the next six months (except maybe MOTOR TREND/AUTOMOBILE magazine editors).

M3forMe | 2017年6月4日

@Red - "Tesla must make sure the base version of Model 3 is actually available for purchase and a tempting/compelling proposition from the outset. Not put off until later on, not deferred, not delayed at all. Because the headlines would go on as a narrative of Tesla missing their goal for DECADES"

100% agree. A base model of $35K must be avail @ launch else the stock will take a beating and the Short/Hater will have a field day. Even if the base model only have a 55 kWh battery with 220 range, the press will call it a success - TESLA LAUNCH A $35,000 CAR AHEAD OF SCHEDULE...

Keep in mind as long as Tesla can release a $35K car that matches the leaked spec document last week (5.6 sec accer, 215+ miles, etc.), they WIN.

Haggy | 2017年6月5日

Almost from the beginning, Tesla was down to two battery sizes for the Model S. They allowed either size battery if you didn't get the performance version, and required it for the performance version since the extra power is needed. There would be no reason not to offer both sizes to a non-performance version. The car is being engineered to be cheap to build and I can't imagine a scenario where that doesn't mean they hook up the same way and are the same size. Tesla had more options with software limited batteries, but it still meant keeping the total number of physical batteries down to three, and they are cutting that back to two for current models.

Some people simply want more range whether or not they need a performance version. Tesla would presumably make more money selling it, while a person who needs more range but doesn't want to pay a premium for the performance would be a lost customer.

Sandy’s 3 | 2017年6月5日

Jaggy. Makes sense.

mntlvr23 | 2017年6月5日

"Jaggy" - is that Haggy's new hip-hop name?

vicmgvaz | 2017年6月5日

Here in Europe, as we have small countries, real 215 miles (345 km), seems good to me.
I will choose simple 35k one, only with red paint:)

ReD eXiLe ms us | 2017年6月5日

mntlvr23: You're the Rapper, he's the D.J. Me? Oh, I'm the singer.

OK, now... Here's the situation:
My Parents went away for a week's vacation and...
They left the fob to the brand new Tesla!
Would they mind?
Mmmm... Well... Of course not!
I'll just drive take it for a little spin and...
Maybe show it off to a couple of Friends...
I'll just drive it around the neighborhood...
(Heh. Yeah, right!)

mntlvr23 | 2017年6月5日

I don't think that they would have left the fob around if they didn't want you to.

I am a D.J., I am what I play
Can't turn around no, can't turn around, no, oh no
I am a D.J., I am what I play
I got believers
Believing me, oh

Rocky_H | 2017年6月7日

Making the analogy to back when the Model S first came out with 85kwh is probably not very applicable anymore. They were in a very different situation back then, when they were kind of desperate for the most cash they could get as quickly as they could. Perception would have been good if they could get ANY car on the market and sold.

Now, they are much more vulnerable to the optics and press of whether they live up to that $35,000 projection they have been announcing for so long. They really should not miss that, and they have the financial flexibility to wait a few months to bring out some higher margin versions of the car.

@Red, Yep, I stand by my prediction that they will not do software locked batteries for the Model 3. The cells are just too precious now and the production volume too big to give them away.

I'll just cruise it around the neighborhood.
Well, maybe I shouldn't......yeah, of course I should!

polaris | 2017年6月7日

telsarati estimates the larger battery to be a $10k US premium. Another $2.8k for AWD.

Pkalhan | 2017年6月7日

@ polaris, if that is true then...

Hello smaller battery, how are you? Allow me to introduce myself. :)

polaris | 2017年6月7日

@Pkalhan

It's like staring at the the juicy rib eye and then ordering the sirloin ... haha

Pkalhan | 2017年6月7日

RIGHT!!!

I was thinking about possibly getting the bigger battery, but at $10k, that would eat up a lot of my budget and prevent me from getting some of the other goodies that I want. I guess we will find out next month...more waiting.

PhillyGal | 2017年6月7日

@Pkalhan - Same boat here. I literally have no idea what I will order until the options are out.

I definitely wanted AWD but won't wait for it so that's a no. I had previously wanted a Performance model but if that's a wait (probably so, if only part of AWD model) then that's out too. I would have gotten a bigger battery if that was the only P/D option, but again, now out.

That might possibly leave me getting close to base! Smaller battery but I want AP/FSD and a glass roof. At least I'll take less of a depreciation hit if the Model Y seduces me enough to swap cars quicker than I usually do. (A real possibility!)

Iwantmy3 | 2017年6月7日

I have said it before and will say it again,
The powerwall 2 has a 14 KWH battery combined with an inverter (worth ~$2000) and all of the other required electronics and sells for $5500. That means they are selling the battery portion for ~$3500 (or approx. $250/KWH). The base model is now believed to be a 60KWH battery while the upgraded battery is believed to be 75KWH (badged at 75). If that is the case, it is a 14 KWH upgrade. Equal to the powerwall. The price differential for the larger battery upgrade on the "3" should not be more than $3500-4000.

My guess is that their cost per KWH is probably in the $130 range. That would mean that the 14KWH difference will only cost them ~$1800.

$10000 is a value related to the costs to upgrade on the "S". However, those cost differentials are legacy values from when batteries were considerably more expensive. Going forward, I believe that Tesla will try to categorize their 3 models for the "S" based more on performance and luxury features and less on just the battery.

Iwantmy3 | 2017年6月7日

PhillyGal,
I believe that they are only making cars with the larger battery to start. It is not so much that the first cars will only be base models with no options to upgrade. Other than AWD and performance, they may be fully optioned cars with no potential to down option.

Pkalhan | 2017年6月7日

@ Iwantmy3 I so hope to god you are right!! And if you are, I will pray good things for you and your family for as long as I own the 3...and I hold on to you cars till the wheels come off hahaha.

4fishtankz | 2017年6月7日

I certainly hope that it's the 75 KW battery that's throttled. I'd pay for the unlock and be a very happy camper, even if it's the rear wheel drive.

SamO | 2017年6月7日

@PhillyGal,

As an original S60 owner, I've often written of how it just doesn't matter. It was apparent the first time I crossed the country: (almost) anyone can take (almost) any trip in a Supercharging Network.

Supercharging is special sauce.

My fastest coast-to-coast trip was only a few hours slower than the records held by Tesla or Alex Roy.

Back on-topic, there's no way the base model is the largest pack with the Model 3-60 offering around 250 miles, almost the range of the original S85.

The good news is that you will be the firist(ish) in Philly to show off that signature red or matte or signed visor or whatever.

4fishtankz | 2017年6月7日

Yep, having a 1/2 Tesla and longingly looking at the available supercharger network it is the special sauce and makes all the difference in the world.

The base 3 will have double the range right off the bat than my RAV4 EV had, and will have supercharging capabilities which my RAV didn't.

Hopefully it won't be a maintenance nightmare like my RAV with Toyota blaming every little glitch on Tesla when I took it to be serviced, since the 3 is 100% Tesla ;).

It's just a range anxiety habit to take my available range and halve it to get a number of how far of a trip I can go, just in case I can't charge along the way and need to charge back at home. I've been used to not finding chargers, being ICED, not wanting to pay the gouging prices that some private chargers charge, etc. I probably won't take long trips very often either, it's just the ability to be able to get into my car and do it ;).

Iwantmy3 | 2017年6月7日

SamO,
I am not looking for the largest battery in order to help with long trips. It is more about the intermediate trips where I can make it all the way to a destination without having to charge on the way. All of my planned destinations are acheivable by any battery size using the supercharger network. However, I can make it all the way without any need to charge if I have the bigger battery.

4fishtankz | 2017年6月7日

Exactly !wantmy3, If I can factor in not having to charge or depending on charging somewhere all the better.

giskard | 2017年6月7日

I concur as well - I'm hoping for the larger battery to help with the intermediate trips. Ideally I'd be able to make it to Bloomington, MN from my house on a single charge (about 300 miles away), but I expect I'll have one short SC stop along the way there.

I also agree that the SuperCharger network is much of the special sauce here. I would not even be looking at an electric car yet without it. I just hope Tesla finishes making it up in my neck of the woods before it's time to confirm my Model 3. I live in the northwest corner of Minnesota which is on the edge of the big hole of "no superchargers" on the map. The nearest one is almost 200 miles away and there are none to the west (yet).

SamO | 2017年6月7日

Then wait. Wait to receive the car, or wait once in a while to charge.

But the piper must be paid ;-)

Haggy | 2017年6月7日

""Jaggy" - is that Haggy's new hip-hop name?"

You mean I had it wrong all this time? Should I change it?

ReD eXiLe ms us | 2017年6月7日

Haggy: D.J. Jazzy Jeff might not mind... too much.

It was kind of an accident, the way that it happened
One day I was rappin, and on the beat, Jeff was backin me up
And all of a sudden, he brought in a cut
And I dropped my microphone and said, "What the?
Hold up, Jeff, wait a minute, play it"
He just smiled and said, "Yeah def ain't it?"
It was {funky} it made wanna {get, get down!}
And we knew almost at once it was the {brand new funk}
So we continued to listen to it
And we knew it was def when I started rappin to it
So I gave a hi-five to Jeff
And without hesitation popped in my cassette
I took it home that night, and analyzed it
Rewound the tape over and over, and memorized it
That Friday, we went to the club
And out and out cold tore it up!

Iwantmy3: Well if Tesla was 'below $190 per kWh' at some point in 2015... And Tesla achieved an improvement of 35% with the Gigafactory already... That would put them at somewhere below $124 per kWh today. Assuming that was at the battery cell level, you might add 20% for power electronics, cooling, packaging, and whatnot. So, something like $148 per kWh as their internal price. If their MSRP is at a 2:1 ratio, the sale price for the upgrade would be around $296 per kWh. So the 15 kWh upgrade could be just under $4,500 if they wanted.

Of course, if that $190 per kWh amount was already at the battery pack level, their sub $124 per kWh cost might allow them to offer it at as little as $250 per kWh at retail. That would make for as little as $3,750 for the 15 kWh upgrade. Cool.

bigd | 2017年6月7日

PhillyGal "I definitely wanted AWD but won't wait for it so that's a no". Is your S AWD or RWD? If it is RWD, please give us a comparison of how they handle in the snow.

bj | 2017年6月7日

@SamO - "As an original S60 owner, I've often written of how it just doesn't matter. It was apparent the first time I crossed the country: (almost) anyone can take (almost) any trip in a Supercharging Network."

Be careful extrapolating personal experience beyond its applicable domain. In many countries with low supercharger density (e.g. Australia), the biggest battery is the only option that would make Model 3 a candidate to be one's primary car.

Otherwise, Model 3 will be a very capable city car, with the bonus of being able to do some very specific inter-city trips (unlike, say, the Leaf), but if it can't cover the last few percent of cases (and the importance of size of that percentage will vary for every individual) then people will keep that ICE in the garage as their "back up".

Frank99 | 2017年6月7日

>>> then people will keep that ICE in the garage as their "back up".

I think a lot of new EV owners will do precisely this. There are a lot of stories on this forum of owners who did precisely that with their previous vehicle when they bought a Model S. Most of those stories end with "then I sold it after 6 months when I realized I hadn't driven it in 5 months".

One of the major goals of the Model 3 is to get normal, average, everyday people (not fanatic environmentalists, techno-crazed geeks, people with more money than sense, and other stereotypes of Tesla owners) into a great EV, to continue the process of changing "hearts and minds" from "EV's are weird" to "EV's are great". People keeping their ICE until they're comfortable with that change is to be expected, and perfectly fine.

SamO | 2017年6月7日

@bj,

I'm not extrapolating personal experience.

99% of the population is covered in the U.S and Canada.

95% of the population is covered in the E.U.

90%+ of the Australian population is covered.

Not including the doubling of Supercharging stalls announced during the remainder of 2017.

Not including the 50% increase announced for 2018.

Not including the doubling of Supercharging stalls for 2019.

What was your point about city cars?

SamO | 2017年6月7日

And the Model S60 (range 208 miles) in the U.S. has been my "primary car" since 2013.

flwrman | 2017年6月8日

Well, we now know the only choices we have to configure is color and wheel size, so says Mr Elon !! I was hoping for larger battery and glass roof. Maybe some of the factory configured M 3 will have it avail.

Hey Gator, are you from Florida?

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