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new car has trouble recognizing speed limit signs

new car has trouble recognizing speed limit signs

I just got my 2017 Model S to replace my 2014 Model S. I have noticed my new Model S misses a lot of speed limit signs where my 2014 version picked them up very reliably. The new car has 2200 miles on it already so it's not like the system has not had time to learn. Anyone else seen this issue? If it matters, the new car has the full self drive hardware.

djlott | 2018年1月27日

Yeah....so...new Model S doesn't do that yet. Stay tuned. Im in the same boat but this is my first MS so I don't know any different.

T35LA | 2018年1月27日

Speed limit recognition in 2014 MS?
This feature was not enabled in AP 1 models nor it is with EAP - AP 2(.5) - yet.
Speed limits you are talking about are determined with GPS and navigation map system.

TeslaTap.com | 2018年1月27日

My understanding is AP1 visually identifies speed signs, but can screw up (reported that our highway 80 is misread as 80 mph). AP2 uses the GPS database for speed, and is accurate in most areas, but wrong in a few cases. Nether system is perfect. In 1 year with my AP2 S, I've never seen a GPS speed limit sign error (local streets and freeways), but other owners have reported issues with the database (i.e. wrong speed on a road). It may also depend if your in a rural area or in a non-USA country as to which method works better.

So those that get AP1 reading errors prefer the GPS system, and those that have AP2 with GPS database errors prefer sign reading. Likely some intelligent combination of both will be the final solution, but no idea when.

murphyS90D | 2018年1月27日

My AP1 car has interpreted a 35 mph sign as an 85 mph sign.

TaoJones | 2018年1月27日

AP1 for me was much more accurate than has been AP2. At first, AP1 had problems with school zone signs, but they fixed that. AP1's camera-based approach both recognized and reacted to physical speed limit signs. Another challenge, which I believe in part gave us the AP2 approach, is if a big truck is between you and a new speed limit sign.

AP2 relies upon an error-ridden database for speed limits. It's wrong a dozen times in a 10-mile radius here in SoCal and where it really gets fun is when it misses a zone in some rural area and then you're stuck at, say, 10mph below the limit (using AS) for however many miles until it updates in a new zone.

Neither system is perfect, but AP1 was far less error-prone. It's not just a SoCal thing - I've been in many states in this car as well.

My theory is that melding the 2 approaches (camera recognition with a database backup) would give us the best of both and a more suitable approach for FSD in general.

Otherwise, they''ll need to spend resources a) fixing the error-ridden db of today, and b) maintaining the db as speed limits can and do change with surprising frequency, either through state mandate/will of the people or just due to long-term construction projects (see the 605 as it approaches the 5 in East LA for a residual 45 mph zone *on the freeway*).

TaoJones | 2018年1月27日

Addendum: a 45 mph zone, permanently signed (white/black sign large - not orange/black sign small), which by the way AP2 completely ignores. See error-ridden, and in this case an example that creates a safety/financial hazard not present with AP1.

pnajar | 2018年1月27日

My AP1 P85D is better at seeing and accurately recognizing speed limit signs than I am. Without a doubt it reads speed limit signs. It’s not dependent on GPS or maps.

One road I drive has been going through renovation. As the speed limit changed to slow cars for construction my car recognized the new speed limit. There was no map nor software updates during the speed limit change.

murphyS90D | 2018年1月28日

AP1 cars use the Mobileye chip. The Mobileye chip can read speed limit signs.

SO | 2018年1月28日

AP2 will have to read speed limit signs for FSD. So it’s coming.....eventually.

bp | 2018年1月28日

Middle of last year, Tesla changed providers for the speed limit data (possibly to TomTom).

Since then, at least for AP2 cars, the speed limit data has been much worse - and I haven't noticed any improvements since then.

For example, on a surface street near our house, the posted speed limit is 35 MPH. The speed limit database believes it is 55 MPH. So if I engage TACC to automatically set the speed, it immediately tries to get up to 60 MPH.

Some streets that used to have speed limit data (which was pretty accurate), now no data is there - so there isn't any speed limit shown on those streets.

And on some highways in the area, especially where there has been recent construction, the speed limit database thinks the speeds are 45 or 50 MPH in sections - when the posted speed limit is supposed to be 60 or 65 MPH. If the car is running under AutoSteer when it hits one of these sections, the car immediately slows down, because AutoSteer won't exceed the speed limit by more than 5 MPH on non-highway roads.

The inaccuracies of the speed limit data base, when it is being used to control the car's speed can create safety and legal problems for the driver - and it's up to the driver to realize this has happened and take over control of the car.

AP2 should eventually read speed limit signs (like AP1), but that's not enabled, as far as we know - though without any release notes from Tesla on what is and isn't working for AP2, we are all just guessing, and because these issues affect the safety of the car, Tesla really should provide more detailed information on what features of AP2 are working (as far as they know).

As for the bad speed limit data base, it's very possible this is a short term problem that will be resolved with the new navigation app. If NAV 2.0 is intended to support EAP/FSD, it will have to be using up-to-date map and speed limit data, in order to allow the software to fully control the car's driving.

jerrykham | 2018年1月28日

In my area - CA Bay Area - my AP2 car using the database is correct about 80% of the time and wrong or doesn't even have the speed limit for the street at all and displays nothing about 20%. My street (been here for 8 years, but tract homes built on it only 3 years ago) doesn't show at all. The main street that connects us to the highway has a 45 MPH speed limit but the database says 40. This is common in the areas that I drive. Again it is about 80% correct. Definitely a good indicator or good guess but cannot rely on it to stay speeding ticket free.

kerryglittle | 2018年1月28日

My AP1 has never misses a beat. I just wish the cruise control would adjust automatically to the different speeds in case I miss a sign. Sure it could be done some how. On the list. LOL

carlk | 2018年1月28日

Eventually, and likely before FSD is fully implemented, everything will have to be geo-tagged. It's actually pretty easy for state and local governments to maintain a public accessable database with constantly updated speed and road work info.

p.c.mcavoy | 2018年1月28日

@T35LA - I have a mid-2016 refresh MS90D with AP1. It very definitely does see speed limit signs. It has recognized temporary speed limits signs that were posted due to temporary road work that had only been up just a couple days. I've also seen it miss a sign where line of sight was blocked due to a truck in the outer lane on a road I drive daily where it regularly sees the sign and adjusts the speed limit correctly when line of sight is not obstructed.

TeslaKU | 2018年1月29日

I have a mid-2017 Model S with AP2. AP2 does NOT read speed limit signs at all. There is a one mile surface street with two speed limit signs on it. One immediately and one about half way.

When turning on to the road, the speed limit in the console is blank. There is clearly a 30MPH sign. After about a quarter-of-a-mile, it comes up 40MPH. At the half mile mark you pass the second 30MPH speed limit sign, but the car still reads 40MPH. Clearly done from GPS/database and not visually.

bp | 2018年1月29日

The speed limit database is so bad right now, I'd prefer an option to completely disable it - rather than risk having TACC set the speed 25 MPH over the posted speed limit (on a side street) or having AutoSteer abruptly slow down in the middle of 70+ MPH traffic.

TeslaTap.com | 2018年1月29日

@bp - To turn off speed limit, turn off TACC. Ok, I'm sure this is not what you want, but does the job for now.

Like all database errors, we all wish there was a reporting system to deal with errors. They could taking the AP1 sign reading data and making an analysis of likely database errors. I bet 95% of the issue could be corrected this way. Oh, well, I don't work for TomTom or Tesla.

Where are you located? I've yet to see a single error, traveling all around California. Perhaps some countries/states are worse than others.

TeslaTap.com | 2018年1月29日

Fixes: They could BE taking the AP1 sign reading data and MAKE a...

Uncle Paul | 2018年1月29日

Tesla's do not perfectly read speed limit signs, but neither do people.
Often I loose track of speed limits. Either I am not paying attention, or a truck has blocked my view etc.

My X does speed limits pretty well, but not perfectly. Usually calculates the speed limits, just as I am passing a posted sign. Believe it does it by data base. Sometimes it is wrong, but it is always up to me to control my speed and not rely 100% on the car.

It seems to be getting better and better, and with each new update the auto pilot seems better able to control the car.

My expectations are pretty low for a car to completely drive itself. I think of it more of an assistant than a master.

If your expectations are for perfect self driving, it will always fall short.

Haggy | 2018年1月29日

AP1 cars read speed limit signs from the time the hardware was added, which was weeks before Tesla even acknowledged that the hardware was there or announced autopilot. Back then it wasn't bad but it made more mistakes, such as interpreting a sign telling trucks to go 55 mph as the speed limit sign. These days it's pretty good. The only thing it can't do (at least on routes I've taken) is properly interpret a sign such as "End speed limit 45" which is another way of saying that the speed goes back to the prima facie speed limit. Why municipalities don't just use a "speed limit 55 mph" sign in those cases is what I don't get. I'm sure there's a reason and maybe somebody here knows what it is. But at least for now, even AP1 cars won't know what to do with that sign.

T35LA | 2018年1月30日

@p.c.mcavoy
Thank you. It's never too late to be educated ;-)

grdndzn | 2018年4月27日

I have a 2018 Model S and have been surprised by how inaccurate the speed limit detection is. I live north of Chicago in a suburban / rural area and drive by speed limit signs that my Tesla misses over half the time. The information you are sharing on this blog is far more helpful than what my dealership is telling me. Thank you!

Bill_75D | 2018年4月27日

Your 2018 is not detecting speed signs. It is using a database based on your GPS position. The database is hopelessly wrong frequently.

sr.smr | 2018年4月28日

I have a 2017 with AP2 version 2018.16 and it does not report the accurate speed limit. I ignore it and set AP accordingly. Maybe the soon promised cross country FSD test means the car will achieve sign recognition and all of the other associated capabilities that we want.

cb500r | 2018年4月28日

Currently programmed speed limit is such bad in Germany that I would agree to have it disabled. Sometimes it shows the right value, sometimes AP2 also slows down, sometimes it shows too high or too low.
Most critical situation I had was in a tunnel on a highway, where the car decided to rapidly slow down from 100km/h to 50km/h, as the tunnel was straight below a street of the city above.
Luckily the driver behind me was not overreacting and I was also fast in accelerating again...
Much better on 2018.10.4, by the way.

Peter C | 2019年3月12日

From the European Model S manual (Dec 2018) "When you adjust the cruising speed based on the speed limit, the set speed does not change when the speed limit changes. You must pull the cruise control lever again to cruise at the new speed limit."

It also seems that TomTom simply don't update reported speed limit changes until they physically visit a location. I have 9 outstanding MapShare Reporter requests with them, all pending during the last 6 months.

markus.eisel | 2019年6月8日

I’m just wondering whether anybody from Tesla is following these forums, and if it makes sense to post complaints, ideas, suggestions.
I‘m driving a MS now since two months (in Germany) and I‘m really enthusiastic about a number of features. The new NoAP is not perfect but a great step. What I cannot understand - especially since it apparently was working in AP1 - is the missing traffic sign recognition! Specifically speed limits. It is obvious that it is not based on the camera at all and GPS based technology is not even 30% of the reality.
I‘ve been driving an AUDI for years and if one thing worked extremely well it was traffic sign recognition.
So if someone from Tesla is reading this, please comment and make sure you work on this feature.

murphyS90D | 2019年6月8日

AP1 uses a Mobileye chip / camera that knows how to read speed limit signs. AP2 exists because Tesla parted ways with Mobileye. I don't think AP2 has that capability yet.

p.c.mcavoy | 2019年6月8日

If you do a quick search on "speed limit sign recognition patent" you will find several that have been granted or filed with active applications.

Mobileye filed an application in 2007 that was granted in 2011 which appears to show an adjusted expiration in 2030.

Conti Temic Microelectronic GmbH (a.k.a. Conti) filed an application in Germany in 2009 and then in US in 2010 which was granted in 2016 with an adjusted expiration date of 2032.

The issue for Tesla likely isn't just developing the capability for AP2, but their ability to develop a method that is novel with respect to this prior art. Or, Elon may need to let his pride and ego of always wanting to do things on his own and reach an agreement with some of these others to license their method.

EVRider | 2019年6月8日

I thought I read somewhere recently that Tesla is starting to roll out speed limit sign recognition to HW2+ cars. If I find the source I’ll post a link.

BlueRadish | 2019年6月8日

Speculation here... I think Tesla is updating the speed limit DB for AP2 cars with AP1 cars. Let me explain what I noticed. We live on a private road with a speed limit sign the neighbors put up years ago at 20 mph. Since this is a private dirt road we don't get much mapping updates from mapping companies, Google Streets, etc. We had a AP1 car that used to recognize this 20 mph sign every time spot on, it also did a great job on all the other speed limit signs around town. Late last year we upgraded to a AP2 car, this new car had no clue about the speed limit on our private road, and had the wrong speed limit in several areas around town where the AP1 car used to read the signs fine. Around the time we got the AP2 car, our private speed limit sign was replaced with a 15 mph one. One day about a month ago I noticed our AP2 car was using the correct speed limits for some signs around town that had been wrong before, at the same time it started to report the speed limit on our private road as 20 mph. So I speculate, the speed limit DB got updated with what the AP1 cars had been reading when we used to drive the road. Since the sign is now 15 mph, the AP2 car isn't reading it, and I highly doubt our street got mapped by a mapping company. Pretty clever if AP1 cars are helping the newer fleet, but I do look forward to the AP2 car reading the signs itself.

EVRider | 2019年6月9日

I noticed that the latest PDF version of the Model 3 owner’s manual mentions reading speed limit signs in the section on Autopilot. I don’t know if that reference is an old one that was never removed for HW2 or something new.

EVRider | 2019年6月9日

Just checked the Model S manual that was last updated in December, and it mentions speed limit signs also, so it’s probably an old reference.

rxlawdude | 2019年6月9日

In our road trip through Canada, the speed limit displayed in our M3 was consistently 10kph higher than posted signs.

Fortunately, Canadians follow speed limits like Americans. (+20% over posted was typical.)

trident3 | 2019年6月9日

My Mercedes "S" could read speed limit signs and even in a work zone slow to the posted speed. Unfortunately, my Tesla "S" doesn't do anything; doesn't read speed limit signs, doesn't read stop or stop lights, will not slow to make a turn, hesitates when on auto lane change and has difficulty staying centered in the lane. I am glad I leased it instead of buying it. Other than that, I just turn everything off and drive it like a regular car and I have no problems and enjoy the ride. I don't think it will be ready for FSD by year end, maybe next year.

EVRider | 2019年6月10日

@trident3: Maybe there’s something wrong with your car. Did you have service check it out? The car isn’t supposed to stop for red lights or stop signs yet.

trident3 | 2019年6月10日

Prior to the recent update things were pretty good. I know what the car can do and not do, but seems last update degraded the previous updates. The phantom braking is a heart stopper on the highway. Your right, I need to take it in and have it looked at. Possibly, a camera or software bug.

EVRider | 2019年6月10日

@trident3: Which version are you running now? I have 2019.16.2 and it seems to be working okay.