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Is EAP worth it?

Is EAP worth it?

If budget starts becoming an issue due to LR, PUP, color upgrade etc. Should I skip EAP for now if I don’t do lot of freeway driving anyway?

lilbean | 2018年1月28日

I would skip it if you don't do a lot of freeway driving. But that's just my opinion.

phil | 2018年1月28日

I agree. I think they charge $5,000, so it's clearly not "worth" it. Might be fun though, if you can afford it, and remember never, ever to rely on it.

Carl Thompson | 2018年1月28日

Agreed. It's good, but $5k is ridiculous compared to what other companies charge for similar. $2k would be closer to reasonable.

Dsmtesla | 2018年1月28日

Totally worth it for me.. I do 25-30k miles a year, 20K + of those are highway. if you do 10k a year and 8k are city, i wouldnt bother.

TeslaTap.com | 2018年1月28日

Since there are no other systems close, except for GMs SuperCruise (which only works on select freeways), hard to say what is reasonable or not. GM also charges $5,000 (on top of a $66K+ base). Just depends on if you consider it of value or not. Right now it Tesla's AP2 is best for freeways, but it is constantly improving too.

hzhang331 | 2018年1月28日

If an extra $5,000 is starting to become an issue, then you probably shouldn't be buying a M3 anyways.

EM34ME | 2018年1月28日

EAP for $5000 is a greater value to me than $9000 for LR.

pjalan | 2018年1月28日

LR is a must as I need my car ASAP. My old car broke down. EAP is an option. I like to watch my dollars.

pjalan | 2018年1月28日

EM34ME I’m sorry I’m not by MS or MX. 5k is significant portion of 35k base price for M3

Carl Thompson | 2018年1月28日

There's also Nissan's ProPilot which one of those review magazines (MotorTrend?) said was better than AutoPilot. Far cheaper too. Lot's of cars these days have adaptive cruise control and lane keeping and $5k is far on the high end.

I'd like EAP but I don't think it's work $5k. The money isn't an issue. It's just not worth what they're asking in light of what others charge.

JayInJapan | 2018年1月28日

Totally worth it if you do any amount of highway driving...

shank15217 | 2018年1月28日

@carl AP is a moving target, it's always improving, even on the same fw, it gets better over the weeks. I am really considering starting a vblog on ap but I don't have much production experience or any serious video gear. I am 100% convinced AP is improving constantly.

vmulla | 2018年1月29日

If budget is the only concern, then AP is the first feature I would remove. Why? It's the only feature you can add in case you change your mind.
Is it worth it? To me absolutely.80% of my miles are highway + rush hour stop & go
Is it priced right? There just aren't many alternatives around to compare, so that's really up to to individual consumer.

Shock | 2018年1月29日

vmulla has a point, you can add back later if you want.

I had originally intended on getting EAP but now I'm not going to bother. I just don't do enough highway driving. And frankly I don't trust the system anyway. When it gets to the point where it is legitimate, reliable level 3 so that I could press it and safely text or look around the window knowing there's basically no chance of it doing one of the many things I've seen it do on youtube, then I could buy it back in.

bp | 2018年1月29日

If someone is trying to get into a long range EV at the lowest possible price point - getting a $35K SR without EAP/FSD will probably be the choice for many of Tesla's new customers when the Model 3 gets into full production.

EAP/FSD can be added later. Those options will likely cost at least $1,000 more (each) if activated after delivery, though there is always the possibility Tesla could increase the cost in the future, should they determine hardware changes are needed to get FSD operating and approved for use.

Is EAP worth $5,000 - today, the answer is probably no, because the software is beta quality, and doesn't yet have AP1 functionality. As Tesla gets the new Vision software working correctly and more cameras are activated, EAP should be able to drive from on-ramp to off-ramp, including navigating through highway interchanges and automatically changing lanes, without driver intervention (except for monitoring, since EAP is driver assist - not self driving). For those who do a lot of highway driving, that could be worth spending $5K or $6K...

But we're not there yet - and today, AP2 is an improved version of cruise control, requiring monitoring, with the driver ready to take over control when the software encounters a situation it is not yet prepared to handle (such as construction barriers, fire trucks parked in your lane, ...).

That said, we're planning to purchase both EAP & FSD with our Model 3 (as soon as the white interior is available) - because we plan to use both features as soon as they are operational - and keep the car for a long time...

You can't do that with any other manufacturer today...

ReD eXiLe ms us | 2018年1月29日

Shock suggested, "...reliable level 3 so that I could press it and safely text..."

Uhm... No. Autopilot, or 'EAP', will never allow you to 'safely text', and Level 3 Autonomy won't either. You won't be able to consider doing that 'safely' with anything less than FSD. I believe Tesla's goal is Level 5 Autonomy for that, though many (claim they) would be comfortable with Level 4 Autonomy. Of course, human beings naturally ignore description, definition, instruction, and warnings. They attempt to text and drive at Level 0 Autonomy anyway... to disastrous results.

"Level 3 -- An Automated Driving System (ADS) on the vehicle can itself perform all aspects of the driving task under some circumstances."

It isn't so much about trusting the system, so much as trusting humans to accept, understand, and be aware of the part that says 'some circumstances'. They will stop paying attention at the phrase 'all aspects of the driving task', then activate Level 3 Autonomy when they shouldn't. They don't learn which 'circumstances' are appropriate for the use of Level 3, and they won't be aware of situations where those circumstances no longer exist.

People will decide on their own, "Oh, I don't have to pay attention, the car will drive itself." They will get away with using the system the wrong way so many times, they will become convinced that is how it is supposed to work. Then, when something goes wrong, they will blame the car. I know that because they already do this with EAP, which is actually Level 2 Autonomy.

If you expect to ever 'safely text' with anything less than fully active FSD, please, pretty please, with sugar on top, do NOT get EAP.

Tom M.us_az | 2018年1月29日

Yes

HansSC | 2018年1月29日

If I order a car without EAP, is there some kind of "standard" AP, instead of "enhanced" AP? Does the car come standard with adaptive cruse control?

My experiences from other cars:
Non adaptive cruse control has nearly no value for me.
I do like driving with adaptive cruse control.
Lane assist has not much value for me.

My expectations:
Not having to do anything (FSD) would be very nice.
Something in between adaptive cruse control and and FSD will have nearly same value for me as only adaptive cruse control.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 2018年1月29日

HansSC: In that case, no Tesla product without EAP will be of any value to you, because Traffic Aware Cruise Control (TACC) is a fundamental feature of EAP (Enhanced Autopilot) and is not available without it.

weluvm3 | 2018年1月29日

@HansSC I agree with you. As long as I need to keep my hands on the wheel anyway, I might as well steer the car.

The little icon in my Bolt’s sides mirrors that warns me if a car is in my blind spot is all the assistance I really need for changing lanes, and, after 30+ years of driving, I’ve gotten pretty good at keeping in my own lane and even navigating curves. So, I don’t need my car to do this for me, except as a cute parlor trick to impress people...an expensive toy, in other words.

During the 5% of my time when I’m driving on the freeway, I guess it would be nice if my car handled stop and go traffic. If Bolt has offered that feature, I would have gotten it—unless it cost $5,000! After years of driving with a stick shift, one pedal driving already feels pretty luxuriously easy. I’m actually having a blast modulating my car’s speed, and figuring out how to hang onto every last kilowatt.

A few weeks ago, my hand was almost literally reaching for my wallet, eager to pay the extra $5,000 for another “fun toy to play with” in my car. But, this delay has given me the chance to cool down and reevaluate everything about this purchase. I think I’ll save that $5,000 and apply it towards the down payment on my NEXT car. Which will almost certainly have working EAP (if not better functionality.). And that feature will almost certainly NOT cost $5,000 all by itself just to activate the software.

HansSC | 2018年1月29日

Is TACC the same as what other manufacturer call adaptive cruse control?

The car without any drive assist features will still be of great value for me ;-)
What I meant was having adaptive cruse control would be an added value for me and to add the value significant more it would have to be FSD.

andy.connor.e | 2018年1月29日

If you do alot of highway driving, EAP is a very nice thing to have. If you do not do alot of highway driving, its rather unnecessary. Dont sweat over getting it if you do not spend most of your time on the highway. You already do all the driving.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 2018年1月29日

weluvm3: It is Consumer Reports' fault that EAP now requires hands on the wheel far more often than before. They complained that it didn't warn drivers to pay attention often enough, loud enough, or obviously enough, and that was a safety issue.

vmulla | 2018年1月29日

Many are talking about how good the EAP is on the highways, and it absolutely is. It's also just as good in so and go traffic. If your city driving involves long periods of stop and go situations EAP is worth it.
Please don't think about EAP as a highway tool only.

weluvm3 | 2018年1月29日

@vmulla Oh, does Tesla already officially endorse using EAP on surface streets?

I didn't know that.

madkim23 | 2018年1月29日

I have AP1 in my S and really like the traffic aware cruise, but didn't get it for my 3. I know I can add it later and the 3 will be primarily an around the town car. Also, if you live in a state that charges personal property tax based on the value of your car, you may be assessed on the purchase price of your car as configured and will be paying for that value every year. If you add it later, you will pay the extra $1000, but won't see your car value inflate by that at your next assessment. Depending on your jurisdiction, this could even the cost out over time.

PhillyGal | 2018年1月29日

Personal preference. I had considered not getting it but my husband considered it a must have. Part of the thing is that while it has only certainly capabilities today, it should have even more in the future.

jefjes | 2018年1月29日

$5000 financed at 3% for 72 months is $76 per month. If you saved to buy it for the $6k figure later, you'd need to save $83.33 per month over another 72 month time frame so including it in the loan may be the way to go if you really want it. Everyone has a unique situation when it comes to money but I look at it as paying forward the advancement of the tech that I hope will some day be saving the lives of future generations and reaping the benefits for myself while doing so. After all, once the loan is paid off, it still works hopefully and will just keep getting better.

eeb9 | 2018年1月29日

This is an intensely personal decision - lots of people find driving to be a chore, and really enjoy having the car take over some portion of that. Assuming that one *wants* the car to take over part of the workload, it's then just a matter of whether the price of admittance is worth it.

For myself, it's not. I *love* driving, and the idea that I'd want to turn over even more of my "Happy Place" to a computer generates an immediate and visceral "[EXPLETIVE DELETED] NO"

That said, Auto-Park and Summon are kinda cool - but absolutely not worth what Tesla is asking for the whole EAP package. (If they ever split these out as separate options, I'd take a serious second look)

Just my thoughts - take a look at how you drive, where you drive, how much you love/hate/tolerate driving tasks and how much $$$ it's worth to you to let someone/something else take over part of the workload.

andy.connor.e | 2018年1月29日

If you can afford it, i would get EAP, but pass on the FSD until it gets approved.

vmulla | 2018年1月29日

@weluvm3, Whoah!! No no, let's take a huge step back.
Tesla endorses the EAP for highway use ONLY.
However, once the driver adjusts to the EAP, understands it's limitations and ACCEPTS PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, it can provide excellent stress relief in stop and go traffic.
I drive the same route every day, so I know what the car can handle, what the route can throw at me and use autopilot at my own risk.

weluvm3 | 2018年1月29日

"Please don't think about EAP as a highway tool only."

Well, vmulla, it kind of sounds like that's exactly what Tesla wants people to do at this point.

I agree that if you find that it works for you, then you should go ahead and use it in an "unapproved" way at your own risk.

But don't you think it's just a bit irresponsible of you to suggest that complete strangers on a Tesla forum do the same? Especially without proper context that the functionality is not yet officially approved by Tesla and may not actually be fully functional, tested or safe.

Just saying. Of course, freedom of speech and all, so carry on...

bayareakid2008 | 2018年1月29日

I'd say AP is at least a year from being where I would want it to be to purchase it, so I'll be putting that $5k on the market until the software isn't in beta anymore.

vmulla | 2018年1月29日

@weluvm3, I'm disappointed that you feel I have been careless. The thread is about evaluating whether EAP is a worthy investment - and I made a case for that.

dkabq | 2018年1月29日

I'll add my two cents to the discussion. As has been discussed, there is a financial component and a functional component to the decision. it is $5,000 and it is still in beta. I bought it because one day I wanted the car to drive for me(improve my driving) if I could no longer be safe driving without it. But for now I enjoy driving. I dislike driving across town with stop and go and frankly with people who don't drive very well, which bothers me and I do not drive very many freeway miles except for road trips. Driving across town was a exercise in how to get from point A to point B as fast as possible(I'm a little impatient). that said now I enjoy driving across town with EAP on, particularly because it is still beta(might be kind of boring otherwise). I know that is not the official position of Tesla, but it is fun (and of course I stay alert). I know it sounds weird not wanting it perfect yet, I like getting new functionality every few weeks or whenever to test and play with. So bottom line I bought it for one reason but found it more enjoyable for other reasons and it is one of the best option I bought and will do it again with the model 3. Hope that helps or might not in your case. love summon as well parking in a tight garage.

weluvm3 | 2018年1月29日

@vmulla Fair enough. But I think you could have provided some additional context to make it clear that it wasn't yet a capability endorsed or supported by Tesla.

There's probably a reason why Tesla hasn't endorsed it, yet. So, purchasing EAP for that use case is speculative and people might be disappointed (or worse, in case it is actually unsafe and people get hurt.)

henry.groover | 2018年1月29日

It's worth pointing out that AFAIK, none of the other manufacturers offering something competitive with EAP will provide OTA update. Tesla has made it fairly clear that the bulk of EAP + FSD functionality is pending additional testing and regulatory approval, so basically that $5K is paying for a future version of the software that will deliver (more of) the promised value. It's safe to say that EAP will have further refinement to support FSD. Nobody's reviewing FSD since it's not available yet.
The difference of $1k in getting EAP later (when it has been released and reviewed) and getting it now is relatively small compared to what is common practice in the auto industry. That becomes a $2k difference if you get EAP + FSD. $10k added later versus $8k added to the purchase financing is also a big chunk for most people.
I'm just saying that it's really too soon to compare. Tesla's approach makes a lot of sense and history suggests they will release something which will be worthwhile, and it will come out as a over-the-air update, but as others have suggested it's a matter of personal choice and your confidence in a product that may still undergo substantial enhancement. The only thing that's fairly safe to say is that nobody is going to be offering aftermarket third-party software updates (nor should they be, IMO). A lot of Tesla functionality is software-driven, which is a fairly radical departure from tradition.

pjalan | 2018年1月29日

So now what I’m getting is looking at future use and OTA updates it might be worth it to invest $5k now as long as I keep the car long enough will get to enjoy during my occasional freeway driving and in future in city once it is more reliable and have more sensors activated and detects a stopped fire truck which I sure don’t want to hit.

bayareakid2008 | 2018年1月29日

I wouldn't factor in future updates when making the decision to purchase NOW. Tesla has constantly been wrong (by A LOT) on the progress of AP2. If the system as it stands RIGHT NOW is not worth your $5k, skip AP, invest the saved money and buy it after it gets better

Auto P85 | 2018年1月29日

Absolutely! I love the EAP on my car. I don't drive on the highway a lot, but I still think it is awesome and I love using it.

PhillyGal | 2018年1月29日

That's the beauty of it being optional. Some will want it, others will pass. Even better is you can change your mind and get it later!

cascadiadesign | 2018年1月29日

I've been struggling with the decision to include EAP. After watching many videos of both Model S & Model 3 I've decided to pass. IMHO, not ready for prime time.

Basically, if I have to babysit EAP (saw latest video showing Model 3 wanting to jump lane because highway was bumpy), then I may as well just take 100% control of the car.

bayareakid2008 | 2018年1月29日

Exactly Cascadia, if I have to worry about the car crashing when EAP is turned on, not to mention keep my hands on the wheel, it seems like a huge waste of money to me.

CraigW | 2018年1月29日

Regardless what Tesla may say - they have financial responsibilities to consider - EAP does work on two lane surface streets. It works quite well, as a matter-of-fact.

This is not a self-steering car, you have to monitor your own driving. With this in mind, and with the caveat that you have to learn your own city streets and how the car reacts, EAP is a god-send in the city.

vmulla | 2018年1月29日

Go to a Tesla showroom and ask for a test drive, tell then it's to help you make up your mind on EAP. No pressure from annoying salesmen at Tesla. That will settle it for you :)
You'll get to drive a S/X and you might even get tempted to upgrade :)

weluvm3 | 2018年1月29日

@vmulla I did that. that's why I'm not getting EAP.

eeb9 | 2018年1月29日

;-)

I had an "anti-sell" EAP experience in my test drives as well... In each of two cases - on a course that the sales reps use for all their demo rides - EAP missed a well-marked curve and drifted into the neighboring lane. I got to see two different sales reps blush a bit.

Of course, Tesla tells us that such things can and will happen and that we must be attentive and keep our hands on the wheel.

Rutrow | 2018年1月29日

Level 3 autonomy will allow the "driver" to safely read and compose text messages.

At level 3, an Automated Driving System (ADS) is capable of continuing to perform the Dynamic Driving Task (DDT) for at least several seconds after providing the fallback-ready user with a request to intervene.

Texting does not remove the driver's attention to the extent that she/he cannot set down the phone and reacquire situational awareness in sufficient time to take over DDT before ADS has transferred control.

At Level 4, the "driver" can go to sleep. The difference between L4 and L5 is that with L5 you'll wake up at your destination. With L4 you may wake up parked on the side of the road (minimal risk condition)

H271 | 2018年1月29日

What features do you get without EAP? What is the delta?

feverdoc | 2018年1月29日

I have a model S and my model 3 is on order. EAP is a must if you can afford it. It makes traveling much less stressful, safer and it makes a 4 hour trip seem like 2 hrs. In stop and go traffic it's great. I will certainly get it on my M3. The autonomous driving is still probably 1-2 years away but hopefully parts of it will come on line like recognizing stop signs and traffic lights like it recognizes speed limit signs.

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