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Ownership Density vs Supercharger Density - UPDATED 9/11/2017

Ownership Density vs Supercharger Density - UPDATED 9/11/2017

Preamble: I want what is best for Tesla Motors (the company), Tesla Owners (everyone eventually, hopefully . . .) and TSLA, and I think I've come to the (parochial) conclusion that Tesla needs to allocate resources commensurate with ownership density. In general, they have accomplished this goal and their accomplishments in creating a network of fast chargers. If you think that everything Tesla is doing is perfect and question how dare I please feel free to read no further.

3 Supercharger Network principles:

1. Supercharger should (primarily) enable long distance travel.
2. Supercharging should be comparable in time to stopping with a ICE car.
3. Long (if infrequent) waits are not acceptable (even) at peak periods of use because they amplify the disparity in fueling time.

Recent (credible) reports of 1400 job openings currently means Tesla is likely behind the curve when it comes to many goals. They are aware of the (good to have) problems generated by unexpectedly large numbers of sales in California.

It seems CRAZY to talk about 25 or 50 additional Superchargers in a single state but that is what is needed in California because Tesla vehicle sales increased at least 73% YOY and 47% sequentially in Q4 2015.

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/12/28/tesla-motors-inc-is-sch...

Superchargers currently under construction that I would (love to) use include:

*Mammoth Lakes - (I (happily) paid $20 to charge at the Westin Monache). But would spend the $20 (across the street) at the Chart House on crab cakes.
*Buttonwillow - Interstate 5 is a rather unpleasant (but unfortunately, direct) route connecting Los Angeles and San Francisco Bay Area.
*Santa Barbara for weekend getaways.
*Napa for wine.
*Eureka
*Crescent City

Tesla has promised an order of magnitude greater number of HPWCs than Superchargers. ~600 Superchargers in operation (or various stages of planning) means that there are ~6000 HPWCs installed (or intended to be) throughout the world.

Projects like Airbnb with 41 rentals available.
http://s.airbnb.com/tesla

Tesla is giving these chargers away as fast as possible. In 2 years, they'll (hopefully?) be ready for the Model 3 launch. With 100,000 Model S and X on California roads by then, Supercharging, HPWC and Software (should and hopefully) will enable a dense charging coverage network comparable (or better than) the ICE experience.

Software

Tesla can fix an overcrowding "anomaly" by using their knowledge of the position and charging status of every (Tesla) vehicle to prevent overcrowding. Letting people see status in real time will allow them to make the best and most informed decision of where/when to stop and charge.

In addition, robocharging a.k.a Procto-bot and charging "reservations" will allow Tesla to encourage alternate Supercharging destinations to prevent surges. Autopilot parking is a big part of the future of charging, where cars will be able to be moved around on private property where (most) Superchargers currently exist.

California is ground zero, localized in Southern California and the Bay Area. They are going to (and have) run into lots of corner cases. Road closures due to snow and fire, power failures, Tesla conventions and gatherings etc.

This thread is intended to help Tesla crowdsource 2nd tier sites and for suggestions for where additional Supercharging might help.

My wishlist of 2nd tier Supercharging locations include:

Northern & Central California
Groveland - Permit March 1, 2016
Victorville
Palmdale
Santa Maria
Visalia
Merced
Los Banos
San Lucas
Half Moon Bay
Yuba City
Redding
Bishop
Kettleman City
Lodi
Antioch
Davis
Santa Cruz
San Simeon
Big Sur

Southern California
Santa Ana - Permited as of February 17, 2016
Oceanside
Escondido
Temecula - Under Construction as of March 22, 2016
Corona
Yorba Linda
Ontario
Fullerton
29 Palms
Alpine
Death Valley

All should be far enough from major population centers to primarily enable long distance travel with the shortest detouring.

What do you think?

Should Tesla spend money on employees actings as valets and paying for tows or should they ramp up their investment in Supercharging creating robust network effects and added redundancy?

If you have any suggestions for a Supercharger:

Tesla is currently building out the Supercharger network and is actively seeking locations along major transit corridors where Superchargers can be hosted. Supercharger stations should be easily accessible from the highway, conveniently located near 24 hr amenities, and safe & well-lit. If you own a property that matches this profile, know someone who does, or are able to help in some way, then please fill the form below. If the proposed site is a good fit, we will reach out.

http://teslafactory.wufoo.com/forms/supercharging/

If you know anyone who might want to install at an HPWC, qualified properties will receive their first two Tesla wall connectors free of charge as long as they are installed in visible or convenient locations.

If your hotel, resort, club, or other full service destination is interested in partnering with Tesla Motors to install charging hardware, Tesla may be able to provide free or discounted Tesla Wall Connectors for our mutual customers' use. Designed to incentivize thought leaders in the hospitality industry, Tesla will offer this program to early adopters who wish to attract forward thinking and passionate customers.

https://teslafactory.wufoo.com/forms/q7b8imo1g0og2v/

++++++++++

Some research on how Tesla is doing keeping up with density:

https://youtu.be/MeEwgmjIP-0

If you don't watch the video, here is the bottom line:

39.3 Teslas per Supercharger stall - Worldwide
62.8 Tesla per Supercharger stall - Netherlands (worst in the world)
105 Teslas per Supercharger stall - California

++++++++++ UPDATE++++++++++

Tesla is adding 1000 Superchargers to California this year. The map has been updated. Thank you Tesla!

https://www.tesla.com/blog/charging-our-priority

We started 2017 with over 5,000 Superchargers globally and by the end of this year, Tesla will double that number to total more than 10,000 Superchargers and 15,000 Destination Charging connectors around the world. In North America, we’ll increase the number of Superchargers by 150 percent, and in California alone we’ll add more than 1,000 Superchargers. We’re moving full speed on site selection and many sites will soon enter construction to open in advance of the summer travel season.

Toward that goal, Tesla will build larger sites along our busiest travel routes that will accommodate several dozen Teslas Supercharging simultaneously. In addition, many sites will be built further off the highway to allow local Tesla drivers to charge quickly when needed, with the goal of making charging ubiquitous in urban centers.

++++++++++UPDATE+++++++++++

Tesla is adding 23 Superchargers to Los Angeles County alone.

https://www.tesla.com/blog/supercharging-cities

SUN 2 DRV | 2015年12月31日

Tesla is already committed to investing in the growth of their Supercharger network.

So what's your point?

A list of Ideas is worthless...

What makes a difference is Focus, Priority, Resources and Execution.

Which of those are you helping with?

Rocky_H | 2015年12月31日

"What do I think?" It's yet another case of California-centric blinders.

Canada
Canada
Canada
Canada
I-10
Pennsylvania

Yes, California does need more Superchargers for density, sure. But Canada and Pennsylvania have been promised coverage for over a year and been neglected pretty badly.

teslcls | 2015年12月31日

Superchargers of some sort will eventually need to be about as abundant as gas stations have been. The likes of BMW, Audi, Lexus, MBZ, (and maybe Detroit), etc., will have to contribute to the network if they are to be a part of the EV transformation. Tesla would be wise to pace themselves as they have been until the overall needs and contributions emerge.

rogert | 2015年12月31日

Supercharger for all national parks! I usually stay multiple days in a park, and hop from park to park, which is currently not doable or very inconvenient. Slow destination charger doesn't work if I don't stay at the place.

Sam_S | 2015年12月31日

Yes, with Tesla's growth trajectory, we'll need a lot more SC's around the world.

I expect TM doesn't need to read my post either to recognize this.

tesla | 2015年12月31日

Meanwhile, I would just be happy if they would finally light-up the second longest and 8th busiest and interstate in the country, which connects 3 of the largest MSAs. (I80)

SamO | 2015年12月31日

@joehuber,

Focus.

@Rocky_H,

I am making the (logical) argument that with 50% of all cars sold in California, there should be more than ~7% of the Supercharger.

I don't think that would qualify as "blinders."

I agree Canada should (and will) have better coverage. Please ask your countrymen to buy more cars. :-)

@Teslcls,

Tesla sales will increase ~40% this year.

Supercharger buildout increased ~5%.

@rogert,

+1 Great idea. I'll take a look and update the thread. Any parks in particular?

@Sam_S,

I think Tesla appreciates owner feedback. Help Tesla. Don't defer to their judgement. They want to know where people ASPIRE to go. See @rogert's comment above.

Perhaps an owner reading this thread knows someone with that list of cities (or with the US Park Service) that is interest?

@jeff,

That is part of the dilemma. If they build them, they can increase demand. Especially in areas that haven't (historically) purchased EVs. Or they can put them where people are already exceeding current capacity.

redacted | 2015年12月31日

I think I see your problem, @samo

3. Long (if infrequent) waits are not acceptable (even) at peak periods of use because they amplify the disparity in fueling time.

Optimizing a system for extreme conditions is far more expensive than allowing it to gracefully degrade, and has little effect on the overall performance of the system. Keep in mind that supercharger stall pairs share a single charger; according to your criteria, Tesla couldn't do that either.

$$$

SamO | 2015年12月31日

@redacted,

Not "extreme conditions".

Normal weekend and holiday travel.

They happen predictably many times per year.

tes-s | 2015年12月31日

I am making the (logical) argument that with 50% of all cars sold in California, there should be more than ~7% of the Supercharger.

Where do those numbers come from?

deeageux | 2015年12月31日

@tes-s.ct.us

CA numbers are easy to get at http://cncda.org/ in their Auto Outlook numbers.

Total Tesla numbers are readily available in many places.

Supercharger info is available at http://supercharge.info/

deeageux | 2015年12月31日
tes-s | 2015年12月31日

That is why I asked where this came from:

I am making the (logical) argument that with 50% of all cars sold in California, there should be more than ~7% of the Supercharger.

Does not seem like it came from the sources you referenced.

Rocky_H | 2015年12月31日

@SamO, Quote: "I am making the (logical) argument that with 50% of all cars sold in California, there should be more than ~7% of the Supercharger.

I don't think that would qualify as "blinders."
-------------------------

It kind of is, when viewed as a supply chain issue. Tesla has all along these past couple of years dealt reasonably timely with crowding and adding capacity to alleviate that in California. Analogy equivalent to delivering widgets on time. With Canada and Pennsylvania, it's like they missed their delivery date. And then they missed it by more, and then by even more. As they are farther and farther behind, the need should be more and more urgent to get it done and make it right. Because at some point, as the company keeps sending widgets elsewhere and blowing off shipping your parts, you as a customer realizes they are giving you the finger and don't want your business.

Quote: "I agree Canada should (and will) have better coverage. Please ask your countrymen to buy more cars. :-)"
-------------------------

"My countrymen" on the left coast are buying too many cars; that's the problem. I am having sympathy for our neighbors in the Great White North, eh? But really, that's your solution? Sure, Tesla has been thumbing their nose at potential Canadian customers for a while, so they should buy a bunch of cars because... What's that saying? Fool me twice...can't get fooled again.

I know there are some really really brave souls who bought Teslas before the Superchargers were even a gleam in anyone's eye, but now that they are building them, it really makes sense that they need to build them somewhat close to an area before it's attractive to have the car.

jordanrichard | 2015年12月31日

deeageux, Just because Inside EVs creates a graphic, doesn't make it true. Tesla doesn't make available sales by state. If anything, these are estimation on Inside EV's part. Also, for what time frame was this graphic for?

I agree with the notion that is who issue and complaints are very CA centric. While people are complaining about lines, there are still a lot of areas that don't even have a supercharger. So, let's keep things in perspective.

jordanrichard | 2015年12月31日

One other thing. Those 1400 job openings doesn't mean Tesla recognizes they are behind their goals. To say so means you must have known Tesla's hiring plan in advance. Those openings are related to both the AP program and for the most part, the Gigafactory, which is actually ahead of schedule.

deeageux | 2015年12月31日

@jordanrichard

questioning the best available data with out better data is meaningless.

cncda.org has Tesla registrations(not estimates) that backs up insideevs numbers.

according to supercharger.info

There are 590 global SC,248 American SC and 37 Californian SC.

That makes CA SC 6.2% of Global total and 14.9% of US total.

rays427 | 2015年12月31日

I live in Northern California and just about every direct route that I would use to get to the East would include I80 or I10. The same would be true from Southern California. Seems that those two Interstates would be more beneficial for Tesla Travel than I90, I40 or I70 where the current superchargers are being built. If the above graphic is correct then I10 would connect the 3 largest concentrations of Teslas.

redacted | 2015年12月31日

@samo, I can put it more clearly

3. Long (if infrequent) waits are not acceptable (even) at peak periods of use because they amplify the disparity in fueling time.

This is an unreasonable criteria. Think about grocery shopping, restaurants, or the blood donation place. The doctor's office. UPS at Christmas. The TurboTax website on April 14. Do you demand an acceptable level of investment so there is never any delay at these? Investing sufficiently so there is never a wait is inefficient.

Don't be such a baby.

SCCRENDO | 2015年12月31日

I feel for those who don't have sufficient superchargers in their state but again Californians are doing the buying so perhaps they deserve the superchargers. Now it doesnt matter where we get our figures from, in reality when you have over 1 hour waits at California superchargers and not elsewhere we can assume we know where the problems are. Also I would suggest that if you know your state doesn't have a supercharger you can plan accordingly. However if you are planning a trip and expect a supercharger to be available yet your 2 planned stops have close to 2 hour waits I suggest we have a problem

sbeggs | 2015年12月31日

@rays427,

Good point.

Red Sage ca us | 2015年12月31日

As long as there are fewer than 500 cars per Supercharger they will have practically the same overall density as ICE. That presumes that getting gasoline takes a mythical 'five minutes' every time, and that a Tesla Motors product needs thirty minutes per stop. This is as compared with a vehicle dependent place like Los Angeles County, where there are over 3,000 vehicles for every gas station.

With 248 Supercharger locations in the US, even if there were 60,000 Tesla vehicles sold here, that would amount to about 242 cars per location.

With 590 Supercharger locations in the world, even with 100,000 Tesla vehicles on the road, that would work out to ~170 cars per location.

If there were 4,000 Superchargers worldwide, they could handle a fleet of 2,000,000 Tesla cars at 500:1.

Some locations will get crowded or busy from time-to-time. And yes, the same thing happens when going to fill an ICE with gasoline. Because certain filling stations are simply more popular than others. Same thing with Superchargers. Some will be skipped by most travelers, while others will be used by most travelers along any given route. And, as range is increased, even the more popular locations will become relieved, even as they further expand to fill need.

TM21 | 2015年12月31日

@rogert - agreed.
High on the list for me:
Grand Canyon North and South.
Chiricahua National Monument, AZ http://www.nps.gov/chir/index.htm
Utah State Parks
Yellowstone.

TM21 | 2015年12月31日

Also, build out the major interstates as indicated on the 2016 maps before beefing up existing sites (or do them in parallel). A map of SCs covering the major interstates is a better selling point to future buyers, I believe.

Haggy | 2015年12月31日

The problem is twofold. As an owner, I'd like to be able to get to anywhere without a problem. Enough saturation to cover major routes addresses that. I also need to be able to charge without a wait on typical peak times. That's currently a problem on what is likely the busiest route for Tesla drivers. Tesla has plans to address both. For now it's a problem on the long distance route I'd be most likely to take. But we already know what's in the works.

l.robinson | 2015年12月31日

As a resident of North Texas, I can only go north or south to leave TX using SC. I'm waiting on I20/I10 and I30/I40 to be able to get to the East or West coast. It was in the 2015 plans but has moved to 2016. Will it happen? So far I've only used a single SC twice on a single trip down I35 from Dallas but I want I20 East and West to make San Diego and Washington D.C. Otherwise I'm feeling trapped.

JeffreyR | 2015年12月31日

Lots of good points above. I travel between HQ (Bay Area) and the Design Center (LA) a lot. I'd love for there to be more options along the 101. There you know where my selfish heart is.

1) Tesla needs to "build it and they will come" more than "show me the money (sales)" -- I think this is an excellent point by @TM21
2) Tesla wants to really cover most of the US (and the world) per their Supercharger maps, but they have had trouble hitting their goals
3) @SCCRENDO's point about knowing you need to make arrangements versus having enough resources at existing sites to meet your needs is crucial. The counter point by @redacted about planning and delivering for rare peaks keeps us all honest.

I think the thing to remember is that even if Tesla misses their planned SC rollout by a year, we will still see a huge, helpful source for traveling pretty "soon." We will all be able to travel across the country on all the major paths of our choosing. And because of destination charging many of the lesser paths will be possible too.

As range improves, battery costs drop, and SC density increases, we will all have an easier time getting where we want to be. Add to that centralized planning, valets and auto-charging queues and it should be even better.

Finally, don't forget part of the SC plan is to build batteries and PV solar panels to keep costs in check too. So even after a SC site is live it will likely take a bit more before it is completed. Seeing that liquid cooled charge cables help increase throughput, calling any site complete is probably an exaggeration.

MilesMD88 | 2015年12月31日

@l.robinson

Texas, being a Red State, has severely limited Telsa's ability to open sales centers, dealerships, and I imagine Superchargers..
The powerful National Automobile Dealers Association is influential in Texas. Through much political lobbying, Tesla is being very restricted operating in Texas. The ICE manufacturers are using political clout wherever possible.

Call your representatives in Texas and ask them why Tesla is restricted from opening stores, service centers and superchargers.

Your vote & phone calls matter...

TaoJones | 2016年1月1日

First: Complete the first and only transcontinental SC route that doesn't require chains and /or snow tires year l-round. That means finishing the 8 I-10 SCs between AZ and TX, toward which zero progress was made in 2015.

Second, and concurrently with filling other glaring gaps in North America: Continue the commitment to DENSITY as well as DISTANCE. That means more SCs in those areas of greatest owner density. Orange County, CA as well as LA County and points adjacent and inland. North San Diego County, for one.

Third: Light up the border crossings in San Ysidro, Otay, Nogales, and even Lukeville. There are multiple tourist destinations within 75 miles of all of those transit points.

The Model 3 prep will rely as much or more upon new SvCs as SCs.

Destination charging can't come fast enough - I wish they'd incentivize 100A service. If there were more 80A HPWCs, I'd have no problem upgrading to dual chargers. Chademos with rare exception are throttled or broken or part of terrible networks. Beyond that, they are woefully underbuilt. Sadly, even with that, they remain the best game in town even when throttled to 20kW - even when compared to an HPWC via 100A, which nets you maybe 17kW *if* you have dual chargers.

Baribrotzer | 2016年1月1日

@semilam: "Texas, being a Red State, has severely limited Telsa's ability to open sales centers, dealerships, and I imagine Superchargers."

Not so much that it's a Red State, as that it's Texas - wherein business interests have an inordinate amount of control over both parties.

And as to Superchargers, there's been some discussion of that on here. You'd think that wealthy, influential local businessmen, such as auto dealers, could exert pressure on local business owners and make SCs very hard to site. I certainly did. But from what I've been given to understand, the owners of the buildings and the land are the ones who really count, not the owners of the businesses - and most commercial properties, even the ones in small towns, belong to huge real-estate investment corporations that wouldn't even notice pressure from local dealers.

tes-s | 2016年1月1日

I am making the (logical) argument that with 50% of all cars sold in California, there should be more than ~7% of the Supercharger.

@Samo - Where did you get those numbers come from?

I think CA is more like 45% of unit sales, 20% of supercharger stalls, and 5% of the area of the lower 48.

jordanrichard | 2016年1月1日

Look at Tesla's criteria or hopes for each SC location. Be near restaurants, stores and within a relative short diversion off main travel route. Next, they need to find a property/property owner that is willing to give up 8 parking spots for the chargers. Then they have to see if the local town would allow the construction of a very high powered charging station set up.

That is a lot of cogs that need to line up. So it is far too easy for arm chair quarterbacks to spout off about how Tesla is not doing enough to solve the problem. Unless you literally has skin in the game, let's let Tesla do their thing.

SCCRENDO | 2016年1月1日

@tes. You ramble on the same point without reading or thinking. Does it matter if it is 45 % or 50 %. As per your numbers even if we have 20% of the superchargers it is obviously not enough. On those figures alone we have less than 1/2 the superchargers we need. Doesn't it seem to you a problem that there have been up to 2 hour waits on busy weekends and many at, above or approaching capacity at off peak times. Rarely happens outside Cal. Biggest problem there seems to be ICEing if anything. Even if Cal is 5% of the land we have more than 10 % of the people. Most live in Southern California. Does that mean we should have less than 5% of the resources of the country. If California were a country it would be in the top 5 of GDP among world countries.

As it turns out some of the Chargers may be misplaced as they support more of the locals than the long distance travelers. This has resulted in multiple chargers needing to be placed almost on top of each other such as Hawthorne, Culver City, Redondo Beach and Fountain Valley. Also seen in the Bay Area Thus you end up with 3 or 4 superchargers serving the purpose of one. Unfortunately there is no legal way to restrict local charging besides appealing to people to be considerate. However it is obvious from these forums that many locals feel entitled. @Tes. You need to factor this into your calculations of how many chargers are needed.

So please stop repeating yourself and come up with a more rational refutation if you disagree with us.

Tstolz | 2016年1月1日

Anyone know the number of cars per Supercharger in California? (Total cars in California/total Superchargers).

Tstolz | 2016年1月1日

Found it I think.

There were about 50,000 units sold in the US to June 2015 according to Wiki. Assuming Tesla was on pace building MS/X at 1,000/week for the rest of 2015 and that the ratio of sales continued at about 65% US sales and 45% of that figure to California, there should be about 30,000 in the state today.

According to Supercharge info .. there are about 37 Superchargers ... 50 including those not yet open (including permits). So the ratio is about 1/810 cars right now. If all SCs were up the ratio would be 1/600 ... sound about right?

Tstolz | 2016年1月1日

Should have mentioned that this is about 300 individual stalls ... so the density is about 1 stall per 100 cars at the moment.

tes-s | 2016年1月1日

@sccrendo - the original poster said this is based on the (logical) argument and put out some numbers.

I'm simply asking where those numbers came from, since the numbers upon which the logical argument are based do not seem correct.

OP: "50% of all cars sold in California, there should be more than ~7% of the Supercharger."

My understanding: 45% of US cars are sold in California. 20% of superchargers are in California. 5% of the area of the lower 48 is California.

Just trying (unsuccessfully) to get clarification on the source of the numbers.

tes-s | 2016年1月1日

We would all like more superchargers. I think Tesla is doing reasonably well allocating US supercharger expansion enabling new routes and adding capacity.

It seems those that use crowded superchargers would like Tesla to focus on them and add capacity. Those who would like to take their Tesla on a road trip on a route that is not supercharger-enabled would like Tesla to focus on them and enable the route.

I think if they simply continue opening superchargers linearly with car sales, all will be well. The sky is not falling.

I would at a 4th supercharger principle to the OPs list:

4. One should be able to drive their Tesla anywhere in the US using superchargers.

SCCRENDO | 2016年1月1日

@Tes. If you drive on one of the most popular routes in the US and have to wait 2 hours at 2 different superchargers this is not enabling long distance travel. On the other hand on routes where there is no supercharger you plan accordingly and use a Chaedemo etc. I am presently in Knoxville for a few days without my car. Passed the supercharger in Turkey Creek today and yesterday and all stalls completely empty. In fact only 1 Tesla even seen on the roads. Different part of the country, different situation. So forget your statistics the reality is there are long waits in California and nowhere else

tes-s | 2016年1月1日

There are several interstates not supercharger enabled.

Building the supercharger network will take time: Waits at superchargers, non-enabled routes.

Patience. Soon.

SCCRENDO | 2016年1月1日

@tes. You again miss the point. Tennessee has less superchargers than California yet on New Years weekend there is not a car in site. I would suggest that despite California having many more superchargers than any other state you have many people waiting. What is a bigger priority. Alleviating congestion where a dozen people wait for a long period of time versus pleasing one or two people by building a supercharger in Arkansas or Alaska.

SCCRENDO | 2016年1月1日

FYI. This was recently calculated as the most optimal road trip across the US
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/03/10/a-data-genius-com...

TeslaTap.com | 2016年1月1日

@samo “I am making the (logical) argument that with 50% of all cars sold in California, there should be more than ~7% of the Supercharger.”

@deeageux “That makes CA SC 6.2% of Global total and 14.9% of US total.”

While likely true for locations (I didn’t check), it does not consider the number of stalls and the continued expansion of existing locations. Clearly there is more to be done, but some locations have increased by 1000% from the start. There are many more stalls, even though expansion of locations is not as fast. It’s the number of stalls that should keep pace with sales and most California locations are now between 6 and 12 stalls.

@teslcls “Superchargers of some sort will eventually need to be about as abundant as gas stations have been.”

No, this will never be the case. Are you forgetting that most owners charge at home and leave the house with a full tank every morning? I’m not aware of many homes that have their own gas pumps, so lots of gas stations are necessary to keep these beasts fueled up. Superchargers are only needed for long distance travel. This is only a small percentage of the miles actually driven by Teslas.

MountainVoyageur | 2016年1月1日

What is a bigger priority. Alleviating congestion where a dozen people wait for a long period of time versus pleasing one or two people by building a supercharger in Arkansas or Alaska.

The question is not interesting unless you can show it is a zero-sum game. Both are needed -- good wide area coverage and enough capacity so that excessively long waits are a very rare event. There is no logical reason both cannot proceed in parallel. Do you have evidence that one must be at the expense of the other?

SCCRENDO | 2016年1月1日

@mountainvoyageur. Yes they should proceed in parallel. The usual limiting factor is frankly permitting and land availability. Some of this thread seem to insinuate that California is a non issue because of the number of chargers it has. I am suggesting that despite the number of chargers the degree of congestion makes it more important to increase the number of chargers. Part of the problem could be alleviated if they could limit local charging which they cannot but some sites such as Tejon and Harris Ranch are purely over extended based on heavy Tesla traffic. Also in a capitalistic society it always pays to take care of your best customers whether they are 45 or 50 % of the US owners.

SamO | 2016年1月1日

589 Superchargers in the World
37 Superchargers in California
6.28% of all Superchargers are in California (~7%)
Supercharge.info

~50% of all cars sold worldwide are DELIVERED IN CALIFORNIA.

tes-s | 2016年1月1日

~50% of all cars sold worldwide are DELIVERED IN CALIFORNIA.

Are you sure?

TeslaTap.com | 2016年1月1日

Ok, a lot of work, but I compiled actual Supercharger stalls using https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Tesla_Superchargers which seems fairly accurate. I did not include HPWC or other non-Superchargers.

Total Worldwide: 2455
USA: 1180
Canada: 124
Europe: 912
Asia: 239

California: 230 or 9.3% of worldwide. Looks like California needs quite a few more to keep up with California sales! Sorry to doubt you SamO!

Interesting that other than USA, Germany has the most stalls at 219. Seems way out of proportion for the number of cars sold there.

tes-s | 2016年1月1日

Supercharge.info (data tab) seems to show (including permitted and under construction):

Total stalls: 3600
USA: 1763
CA: 386

That would put CA at almost 22% of US capacity, and almost 11% of worldwide capacity.

bryan.whitton | 2016年1月1日

Germany has restrictions coming regarding the installation of charging stations. Tesla had to get the SCs installed before the end of the year. Therefore they got a lot of them installed, in many respects way out of proportion of need.

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