Is Tesla hurting loyalty by bypassing reservation sequence?

Is Tesla hurting loyalty by bypassing reservation sequence?

I have an S model and love it Put my money down for an X 3 years ago. I ordered a 90 D fully loaded as soon as my dash opened. I know that Tesla can deliver in whatever order it wants But what it is doing is tacky and in my opinion hurting the loyalty with its customers, IIs integrity is suffering. They have no competition right now but that will change. A company with a reputation of integrity wins out over their competition when competing products are similar. Tesla you are looking at short term gain over long term market share.

Red Sage ca us | 2015年12月24日

I'll presume that headline is a query.

Answer: NO.

sp_tesla | 2015年12月24日

Agree 100% w/Red, Answer: NO.

Brian Vicars | 2015年12月24日

Has Tesla given a reason why the least expensive vehicle wait time is the longest? I am speculating that availability of parts may be the main reason. I also, do not think this will have any affect on Tesla's reputation.

TonyInNH | 2015年12月24日


dortor | 2015年12月24日

Margins the cheapest models have the lowest margins - tesla has done this before - they have always placed P orders in front of all others - you may be loyal but they place their most profitable customers in front of lower margin locality.

kittylitter | 2015年12月24日

Once the X is out in force everyone will forget about the poor communication of its rollout. Everyone, that is, except Tesla.

I truly believe that Tesla has been listening and will not allow the same mistake to happen again. We will see the Model III rollout with a lot more 'personal' interaction than the X rollout has had.

Tesla is a growing company that has shown it evolves as needed. It is a company of the future and is going to be just fine.

vandacca | 2015年12月24日

I don't believe that Tesla has completely got the design complete and the robots programmed for all the combinations yet.

Another reason to bypass reservation sequence order with model type is to give Tesla a little more time to tweak the design for those models. Specifically the 5-seat option. Having as few options as possible (in the beginning) makes it easier to get up to speed.

Triggerplz | 2015年12月24日

I put my deposit down in mid 2015 and I'll be ordering the P90D accordingly it doesn't bother me if I get it before those that left a deposit in 2013 and ordering the 70 or 90D..

danej | 2015年12月24日

I'm not bothered a lot that they're building all Founders, then Signatures, then P90D, then P90, etc.

But it does bother me that when you get the invitation to configure and finalize, perhaps six or more months before they'll start building your car, that the build order will be determined by how quickly you finalize, NOT when you put in your deposit.

I'd hoped to wait a few months, see the car and finishes in person, and as I'm buying a P90, it shouldn't matter, right? Because they're not starting to build them until perhaps mid-next-year, or second quarter at the earliest. Getting a peek at a demo in the showroom in February seems prudent.

But I'm told that despite my early-2013 deposit, and 5xxx "position", that it doesn't matter, if I wait to finalize, I'll be delayed behind those who do finalize. So someone who ordered in 2015, who is invited to configure in January, will get their car before I will, if I wait until February to finalize.

This makes no sense to me. If they're kicking off P90 builds in May, why wouldn't they take all finalized orders at that point, in the order they were initially reserved - NOT the order they were finalized??


paradis | 2015年12月24日

@danej - One valid argument is that a "reservation" is merely that. It is not a binding order and the reservation holder can back out and get a full refund. Therefore, there is some justification for building the cars in the order that they were actually purchased with a firm commitment. Just my $.02

kittylitter | 2015年12月24日

The other thing is, we don't really know how they are doing it. It's all speculation at this point.

dortor | 2015年12月24日

it's really not speculation - we're simply stating what is posted as delivery dates on the order pages

P90D's "early 2016"
90D's "mid 2016"
70D "late 2016"

it's not speculation - it's what Tesla is posting on their website as expected delivery time frames.

kittylitter | 2015年12月24日

But, do we know for certain that a delay in finalizing puts you lower in that particular queue? Just asking. I don't know the answer.

cprzywarty | 2015年12月24日

NO! Tesla is not hurting loyalty if they bypass reservation sequence!
Tesla will build as they most see fit on their time frame in the order that makes most sense for efficiency and profit while ramping up production of this new model X and trying to meet demand. That is what a company that wants to stay in business does. I can relate to anyone who has had a deposit down for 1-3 years already. But it is only a deposit. If you want to pay full amount up front and throw in additional money on top of that to jump line, and Tesla agrees to this and a delivery date, then more power to you and Tesla.

I have $5000.00 down on a potential Model 90D X with No P, No ludicrous mode and no air suspension. I'll take standard tires plus most all other options including Auto Pilot, Winter package, Towing,and Lux lighting package maybe. I have not been offered to design yet. I can wait. There are 20000 of you would be model Xer's before me.

I'm ready to put down $5000.00 deposit more anytime Tesla would let me to get in line on a Model 100D X (This model does not exist! Yet! :^) with same features listed above and will patiently wait until Tesla can build/make it for me at their time and choosing. I can Hope!

I figure Tesla could offer a 100 battery pack option for additional $10,000 or less but I am guessing.

Just my 2 cents. I'll patiently wait for my partially self driving TESLA Electric car. Self driving car people! Or take your $5000 deposit to another manufacture and buy their self driving car with free highway charging across the country. Oh wait, my mistake. There is No other car manufacture offering this, now or in next 2-3 years.

Or take your $5000 and build you own Electric self driving car.

I'm not being a Smart A##, just a patient, realistic, Loyal Tesla Customer. A customer who is more than happy owning the future in my life time. 9 months a year maybe a year and half for my Tesla Model X.

Merry Xmas, Happy Holiday's to all forum members. Let's all stay safe. Good discussions here people. Sorry if I sound rude, just giving my humble opinion

Ankit Mishra | 2015年12月24日

Well it might disappoint you and some others but Tesla is doing what is right for itself. As others have pointed out that margins are thin in the beginning. Therefore they want to make the product with max profit margin 1st. I think this was the case with dual motors Tesla too. Also, I think I have read this was the case in the launch of S too.
Also, with booking the car you have merely shown the intent of buying the car. The terms of buying the car have been released now. And the terms are -order a P90D to get early delivery. This is my opinion, you are free to assume you are at higher moral ground (than Tesla).

carlk | 2015年12月25日

No! And absolutely not if you meant "loyal" loyal customer.

carlk | 2015年12月25日

@kittylitter That's my understanding. Within the same model/option the production date is more or less determined by the date you finalized the order.

J.T. | 2015年12月25日

@kittylitter I truly believe that Tesla has been listening and will not allow the same mistake to happen again.

Really? Were you around for visorgate, ESA gate, suspension gate, parcel shelf gate, Dual motor gate, AP gate?

They never learn their lesson because they don't have to when they're at the highest peak of moral ground as ankit suggests. :-)

J.T. | 2015年12月25日

I left out second row flat gate.

Ankit Mishra | 2015年12月25日

What AP gate? Also dual motor gate? I am a non owner and extremely ignorant about the physical aspects of car. But what about AP and dual motor?

J.T. | 2015年12月25日

A week before the D announcement people placed orders for P85+ after being assured by the sales associates that nothing new was on the horizon. It's true that the sales associates didn't know, but they certainly had not been trained to say, "I don't know." Those who thought they would be king of the hill for at least a year were buried under the "D" avalanche. They were not happy.

Before AP was rolled into all new cars around September of 2014 some VINs got the AP hardware and some VINS after that did not. So, the lucky ones who did were able to "turn on" AP for a fee but retrofitting was impossible. It caused some consternation and bitter feelings.

J.T. | 2015年12月25日
Ankit Mishra | 2015年12月25日

I believe I have insufficient knowledge and hence wouldn't comment on these areas. Tesla might have made mistakes in these areas as you are suggesting. I thought you were pointing to AP delay hence I asked the question.

J.T. | 2015年12月25日

I appreciate you acknowledging that Tesla might have made mistakes. My point in this thread is that unfortunately they have yet to learn from them.

MrBuffer | 2015年12月25日

I'm sure they've hurt loyalty a little but probably not enough to put the company in any kind of real trouble. For now they still have the product that no one else has.

Lesson learned: When they show off the Model 3 no deposit from me!

DuSercan | 2015年12月25日

No. it wont hurt loyalty in the same way that airlines dont lose loyalty for offering first class and better service with it when compared to coach class.

carlk | 2015年12月25日

@J.T. We all know that "AP-gate". The guy insisted that he was "assured" by Tesla staff there will not be anything new but we failed to get the other side of the story. That's why this kind of internet forum journalist can be so dangerous.

@DuSercan That's a very good example. A lot of other business do that too. There is no issue at all long as they offer everyone the chance to pay more and get the better deal.

J.T. | 2015年12月25日

I did forget center console gate and brown and green gate.

AlMc | 2015年12月25日

@JT: Oh, and A/B battery gate and SigS tax gate :)

AlMc | 2015年12月25日

@CarlK: Is there a secret handshake to me a member of the 'loyal' loyal customer club? ;)

NumberOne | 2015年12月25日

Forget for a moment about money. If you reserve a table at a very good and very busy restaurant at 6pm, do you think you have a right to be upset if you show up at 7pm. I think not. I might have more of a right to be upset if people who ordered their car in 2015, ordered the same car I did, and finalized after me, who reserved in 2012 and finalized my order as soon as I could, still got their car before I did.

I think that the number of Performance orders will be high enough to make a material difference to Tesla's Margins, but not high enough to make a major difference in when my own car is delivered. The whole point is to encourage people to buy the most expensive cars.

carlk | 2015年12月25日

@Almc Anyway you like long as you use all five fingers. ;)

@LeonardD Agreed. Most busy restaurant I know just give you a slot when you make the reservation. They will always sit the one who shows up at the door first regardless of when the reservation was made and for what time. They have no idea if you will be a customer that night util you are there. The same as Tesla does not see you as a customer until the order is placed. So the priority is definitely the right thing to do. | 2015年12月25日


From the beginning, the Performance editions have gotten priority over standard editions. I think this makes good business as it priorities the highest margin cars and maybe also convinces anxious types like me) to move up. I think it also makes sense to let the factory focus on a single version of the vehicle to get any kinks out--controlling variables is good engineering.

AlMc | 2015年12月25日

Quick answer: Yes, based on many people expressing their displeasure.

Longer answer: I was personally not surprised or disappointed as this is how TM has operated all along. That is their pattern and I get it. I do understand how this frustrates people who have not seen TM's operational mode before and to those people there will be some damage, in their eyes, to loyalty to the brand.

AlMc | 2015年12月25日

Better analogy for Restaurant vis-a-vis TM:

Two equal sized parties

You make your reservation days before mine. We arrive at the restaurant at the same time and there is one table available immediately. You slip the Maitre de $20 and you get your table first even though I made an earlier reservation and we arrived at the same time.

AlMc | 2015年12月25日

Sorry: I slip the $ 20 and get the table before you.

Poor typing skills and proof reading on the iPhone

carlk | 2015年12月25日

@AlMc That $20 would get you seated restaurant is probably the restaurant equivalent of GM at best. Try get a reservation at some of those super hot Michelin 3 star restaurants, which are more of the TM equivalent, no matter how much you are willing to spend. Those places can write their own rules.

darlin | 2015年12月25日

Getting back to the question, No. I will be ordering the P90D, just so I do not have to wait. I think the company is doing what it needs to do to survive and making the most profit as soon as possible when your cash burn rate is eye watering, is the smart move. If you do not want to wait, pay up, or shut up.

Triggerplz | 2015年12月25日

Since some are putting their 2 cents in here's mine if u buy a airline ticket in 2013 and somebody else buys a FIRST CLASS ticket in 2015 the one that bought the First class ticket in 2015 gets to board first. It's not lets get on board in sequence of the tickets bought.. When coach passengers who bought tickets in 2013 get on board First Class passengers who bought tickets in 2015 already drinking a beverage and eating peanuts ..

Triggerplz | 2015年12月25日

OOPS I just saw that DUSERCAN already made that point.. My Fault

TonyInNH | 2015年12月25日

The airline comparison is a false analogy. Once ramped up Tesla could easily fulfill orders in any order they wish, that's the point of all robots and the super advanced assembly line. It will hurt loyalty, just not enough to affect them because once their backlog is exhausted they'll be back to a 6-8 week lead time. It's just the early reservation holders who get screwed and in the grand scheme that amounts to a very few.

skymaster | 2015年12月25日

I bought a Model S in March 2013. Starting in July 2013, the upgrades started rolling out like the parking sensors, sub-zero, and on and on.I sold it in August in the nick of time before the auto-steer software hit. I really don't understand why anyone would buy a pre-auto Tesla . I do want a Model X, but I will wait for the 8 camera MBLY setup.

If you have a Model X on order, be patient as they make lots of improvements every week. You will get a better car the longer it takes to build yours.

I will not get burned again by buying a Tesla in the first year of production.

carlk | 2015年12月26日

@skymaster Please tell me the date that Tesla will stop making improvement so I can buy the X then. Thank you.

Triggerplz | 2015年12月26日


aljjr2 | 2015年12月26日

This was predictable IMO. When Tesla launched the Model S "D" in October of 2014, they saw a large number of orders converted to, or were placed for the P85D -- thus the demise of the P85+. I surmised that during mule testing for the Model X, they found they had a marketable option for the Model S.

After they announcement, Tesla said for the remainder of 2014 they would build only P85D, and would continue the 85D and 85 rear wheel drive in early 2015.

The other thing that made it somewhat predictable, is the observation and announced intention (2nd quarter 2015 Analysts call) to utilize manufacturing efficiency. One began to see bundled "packages" instead of individual options, a move away from strict sequence build and ship in favor of batching deliveries by geography to gain shipping efficiency. To meet the stated target of 500,000 vehicles a year by 2020, Tesla can't build one-by-one based strictly on order sequence. They have to find a medium between order sequence, efficiency and quite frankly profit margins.

Lastly, Tesla stated the build priority to maximize economies up-front. Tesla also stated they would build a less costly version of the model X in the later part (at the earliest) of 2016 (Third Quarter call).

Since inviting 10,000 Production reservation holders into the design center, Tesla seems to have a good estimate of buyer requirements and reportedly have changed the estimated delivery for 90D Model X's to first part of 2016 as well (limited Production data points and VIN numbers suggest the P90D preference is about 6-10% of total orders -- early data points).

Understand the emotion of changing from strictly build by order date. But its part of the maturity of the company. They must find and take advantage of economies-of-scale where possible. I think they have found the correct balance. There is a real potential that the current process may serve a greater number of reservation holders quicker than sequence building -- 1500-2000 combined vehicles a week. See from where they came in a year.

aesculus | 2015年12月26日

@carlk: @skymaster Please tell me the date that Tesla will stop making improvement so I can buy the X then. Thank you.

Actually he did. He said not in the first year. So December 2016.

Anyway while they will never stop improving the car there are certainly big items that may or may not be important to some people. They need to recognize what these might be and decide if they need to wait for them or get the car now.

You are happy with what the car does today so none of these items are important enough for you to wait. For others it may be important. And while Tesla has not disclosed that any of these are coming, or if they ever will, there is a lot of speculation by various members here and over at TMC that they are highly probable. Timing is probably the biggest question.

Folding second row seats
Rear view side cameras
Electrochromtic windshield
Better motors
Middle row (6 seat) console
Frunk power plug
Frunk self opening/closing
Faster responding center display with higher resolution

TonyInNH | 2015年12月26日

Rear view side cameras are subject to regulation changes so good luck with that. I have no doubt Tesla will be the front runner in that category when/if the regulations change. It helps that it is not only Tesla advocating for change, many of the big auto companies want to see it as well.

carlk | 2015年12月26日


It's a list no one knows when each item will be implemented (btw frunk will never be self opening/closing due to safety rules), not to mention "better" or "faster" in the descriptions is always a moving target. The fact is still there are so many things Tesla did that we did not know until they are ready to be revealed. The D, the AP, the insane/ludicrous, the pano windshield, the auto open/close front door.....are all good examples. I'm sure Elon is working on a lot of "levers" that no one knows and probably could not even guess what they are. You could wait forever but still not be able to own the latest and greatest.

The most important thing is you are buying an awesome and most advanced car today. Any other car you buy now, or for that matter anytime in the future, will be obsolete the moment you sit in the driver seat. It will not be as good as even the current Tesla.

aesculus | 2015年12月26日

@carlk: btw frunk will never be self opening/closing due to safety rules

This may not be true. While the rules today require a second latch that involves another operation to prevent inadvertent or unintended opening of the hood/frunk that would restrict visibility, it does not preclude that you could create an automatic opener, and especially closer.

It would still require a second latch and would also require a second command to affirm what you intended. It could be all done electronically and hands free, but I will leave it to the 'real' engineers to figure out how they would want to deal with this and still stay within the guidelines and intent. Since this would require a fair amount of effort versus the value or expected use of the feature, I would not hold my breath. But it is certainly never.

aesculus | 2015年12月26日

But it is certainly NOT never.