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Model 3 battery draining 1-2 miles per hour while off

Model 3 battery draining 1-2 miles per hour while off

I posted about this previously: https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/vampire-battery-model-3

But the problem persists. We've completely disconnected both phone keys and solely use the keycards to lock and unlock.

The software is version 2018.14.13, I believe it's the latest.

We've taken it to Tesla service, and they've promised to file a work order and email us: that was over a week ago when they said they'd do it "today".

What else should we be trying, short of going back to the service department and demanding a loaner until they get this fixed?

lilbean | 2018年5月20日

Maybe don't wake it up every hour to check it.

magglass1 | 2018年5月20日

Check the phone app and see if it shows the phone key as connected while you're in your house. If so, maybe that's keeping it awake?

EVRider | 2018年5月20日

Do you hear any fans or motors running when this vampire drain happens? It's definitely not normal behavior. If you hear a fan running, maybe there's a problem with the thermostat, which is making your car think it needs to constantly warm/cool the battery.

Sounds like brining it to Service is the right thing to do, hopefully they'll get to it soon (actual "soon," not Elon "soon" :-)

colvinam | 2018年5月20日

Batteries do this

joyner.cn | 2018年5月21日

@lilbean: Needless to say, we're not waking it up every hour during the night to check it. It was at 262 last night at 8PM, 243 this morning at 11AM.

@magglass1: We've disconnected all phone keys.

@colvinam: They lose 19 miles of charge overnight? I've got a Model S, and it's never lost more than a mile in a day.

@EVRider: Oddly, no -- but I don't know if I'd really notice it if it never stops.

Service center it is then.

Mrashidi.chem | 2018年5月26日

Is your problem solved?

I have the same issue. Service center checked the HV and said it has no issue. But common... over 15 miles per night with every thing off and no phone key is not normal.

My car is in service now for different issue but again I told them to check it. I am requesting everything in writing to get prepared for a Lemon situation.

TBlue | 2018年5月26日

The Tesla has quite a few quiescent loads even while sitting in the garage - like updates to the software, monitoring of the charging schedule, watchdog routines etc. I lose about 5 miles over 24 hours of inoperation. Not alarmed, as self-discharge when it comes to batteries connected to multiple loads. But, 19 miles does seem excessive.

djharrington | 2018年5月26日

You have an S with only 1 mile of phantom drain a day??

WardT | 2018年5月26日

I checked my phantom losses over a two week period (we went on vacation) shortly after receiving our M3. It lost 4 miles a day. I woke it one time to check on it over the two week period. It was inside our garage.

MarkBrokeIt | 2018年5月26日

How are you able to measure this?

Alex_SD | 2018年5月26日

tesla service Center recommendation for long term storage: - set the charge level to 50% and plug the car into a level 1 outlet (120v 15amps). This way you can check on the car as often as you would like...

WardT | 2018年5月26日

Mark, take a picture of the battery miles at the end of the day or sometime when you are finished using the car for awhile. In the morning or next day, week or whatever time since the car has been “sleeping”, take a picture of the battery miles when you wake the car. The battery miles will be lower after a period of time the car is asleep. You can take a screen shot on your phone when the Tesla app is up and the app shows the car is awake. The longer you can leave the car alone, asleep and unplugged the better the information will be.

Mrashidi.chem | 2018年5月26日

@AlexDoro: The problem is the waste. Plugging to 110v doesn't solve it. It just hides it. I've paid for a car with 1% per day drain in perfect Los Angeles weather. The drain is about 8%. Not acceptable and a perfect lemon lawsuit.

Alex_SD | 2018年5月26日

@mat
I agree, no worries. My comment was a general comment for people leaving the car in their garage for an extended period of time. It’s not meant to hide your issue...
My car looses around 1 mile per night. Probably 2-3 miles per 24 hours.

One person reported a similar issue due to a faulty temperature sensor inside the battery. It was diagnosed very quickly by the service center and fixed.

They need to identify why the car is not going to sleep as scheduled. I don’t understand why they haven’t done it yet...

19 miles is not acceptable.

dmm1240 | 2018年5月27日

I checked my phantom losses over a two week period (we went on vacation) shortly after receiving our M3. It lost 4 miles a day. I woke it one time to check on it over the two week period. It was inside our garage.

My MX loses 4-6 miles a day even when off and not driven. All electric cars do, just the way they work. I don't keep it plugged in all the time because I live in a townhouse and don't want to give neighbors something to gripe about. If it bothers you, leave your M3 plugged in all the time when you're not using it.

WardT | 2018年5月27日

Dmm1240, I am not unhappy with my lost 4 miles/day phantom electrical losses. I was just stating what my losses were as a reference for Joyner.cn. We should not really call it phantom losses as we understand the car requires a little power all the time to be ready if called on to wake up. Kinda like appliances that use power even when off.

billlake2000 | 2018年5月27日

joyner.cn
Please post the outcome after your service visit. TYVM

MarkBrokeIt | 2018年5月28日

Where do you see battery miles? I only see %.

Alex_SD | 2018年5月28日

It’s under Car->Display->Settings (top right little wheel) and choose between Energy and Distance for the Battery.

joyner.cn | 2018年5月30日

No, still unresolved. I took it today, and the repairman kept saying that Tesla Fi can cause that issue. He was unfazed by me saying it was going on for 2.5 months before I set up. He wants it to run without Tesla Fi over the weekend to get an accurate gauge -- which is fine, it's good to have more recent data.

I'm predicting it'll end up being something like what you said, @Alex_SD -- an easy fix once they actually look at it instead of just making vague promises about "Yeah, we're going to put in a work order to look into it" (which is what they did both times we brought it by before today).

@djharrington: I think so -- I can't say I've ever noticed any drainage, but I wasn't paying close attention. But it's never been so high that I noticed it subconsciously -- certainly not "I supercharged to 90% yesterday, drove 5 miles home, and it's 75% now", which is what her Model 3 is doing.

@WardT: That's the amount I would consider acceptable and normal.

@MarkBrokeIt: For us, we just look at the "miles since last charge". Earlier today, for example: we know we charged it to 280 last Thursday. It reports it's driven 30 miles at 350kw/h since then, which is 17% above rating, so we'd expect it to to be at ~245. Instead, it was at 105. So, in 6 days, it lost 140 miles beyond the ~35 miles it drove. That's 24 miles per day, a mile per hour.

@dmm1240: What part of "19 miles per day" (or 24 miles per day more recently) do you not understand?

dd.micsol | 2018年5月30日

If you leave the app open on your phone or use climate controls via phone you might find higher vamp drain. Keeps having to use wifi or 3g to wake up to communicate.

ravisundaramam | 2018年5月30日

@joyner.cn | May 30, 2018 Everyone seems to agree 19 miles per night/day is not kosher. Hope they find what is wrong and fix it.

Bartman4 | 2018年6月2日

Ironically, I’ve been able to use TeslaFi’s Sleep Mode to address this issue. Basically my Model 3 will Idle all night vs sleeping. Thus, the higher power drain. I experimented with TeslaFi’s sleep mode and now the car goes to sleep nightly with minimal power loss (1 mile usually). I don’t know if TeslaFi was keeping the car awake or if it’s my phone Bluetooth as our master bedroom is on top of the garage (I literally sleep 10 feet on top of the car). Either way, it’s no longer an issue.

ravisundaramam | 2018年6月3日

@Bartman4 | June 2, 2018: Glad you found a fix.

Sorry for the dumb question, what is TeslaFi ?

ksalberta | 2018年6月3日

@Alex_SD - keeping the car plugged in all the time may keep the charge up, but the waste involved means that it should be fixed!

Many people buy EVs to be environmentally responsible - having a car that is burning that much electricity means that the car, just sitting in the garage or driveway, is generating GHG emissions. Just utterly wasteful, and not good either for the car or for the environment. Unless, of course, one has one's own solar system that is used to charge the car - but still the excess energy has a cost somewhere. Either that electricity could go back on the grid or it could be used elsewhere in the household. And generally the cars are charged at night, so solar power is not on the grid and it's usually being charged from fossil fuel generation.

US electricity is not most derived from renewable sources, so although the cars themselves generate no GHGs, the electricity we use to charge them generally does come from sources which do.

Even if one does not care about the environmental impact/charging cost, these batteries do have a limited lifetime. Having to charge it that much more will have a distinctly negative battery lifetime impact if not repaired.

It's probably just a bad sensor somewhere! They could pull the logs and look to see what is going on.

martinbogo | 2018年6月3日

If your garage is like mine ( in TX and not air conditioned ) --- if the car gets up to 105F it will turn back on to run the AC and cool the battery.

I'm now in the habit of keeping our Model S plugged in... and it does kick on from time to time from sleep back to semi-sleeping idle.

Bartman4 | 2018年6月3日

@ravisundaramam TeslaFi.com is a monitoring site for Tesla vehicles. There is a free trial followed by a subscription. I like the data it provides and have been able to use it’s scheduled sleep mode to put my Model 3 to sleep regularly. This reduces my overnight power loss to less than a mile.

kktong88 | 2018年6月4日

I've been on 18.13 for the past week or two, but it wasn't till yesterday that I started having significant vampire drain issues. I lost 10 miles parked in the garage for about 10 hours over night. Before that, I could be parked outside in 90-95F heat for 10 hours during the day and maybe lose 1 or 2. Tesla app closed on phone. I just tried a soft reset of the car. Hopefully that helps.

doug.bolton | 2018年6月4日

I've read about excess vampire drain on many forums, and the common denominator was 3rd party apps waking the Tesla up (sometimes 100's of times a night)

Turn ALL Tesla related apps off and monitor the vampire loss at night. Then and only then, go to Tesla support is the issue persists.

Picking my M3 up this Friday :)

mattjpeterson | 2018年6月4日

"I like the data it provides and have been able to use it’s scheduled sleep mode to put my Model 3 to sleep regularly. This reduces my overnight power loss to less than a mile."

TeslaFi can't increase the amount of sleep time. The TeslaFi "Sleep Modes" are for limiting how often TeslaFi polls to decrease the chance that TeslaFi will keep the car awake when you don't want it to be awake. Obviously if you aren't running TeslaFi in the first place then there will be no polling and the car will go to sleep more quickly in all cases.

Since the release of 18.3 my car has not been sleeping very reliably when TeslaFi was active and only by significantly increasing the idle polling interval to the point where several events were missed was I able to get it back to normal but I was still losing several miles a day in vampire losses. I disabled TeslaFi late last weekend and this week I'm back to only losing 2-3 miles per day from vampire drain.

I really like the data collection provided by TeslaFi though so I may activate it again once I've gathered more data on vampire losses with TeslaFi disabled to use as a control to compare against.

Colatabajonies | 2018年6月4日

I’ve noticed issues with sleep on the latest firmware. Even without polling the Tesla API (ie the app or TeslaFi or my custom web app), the car now doesn’t sleep reliably. Before the latest firmware, it reliably went to sleep after about 10 min of inactivity.

I’m pretty sure it’s a bug in the latest firmware. I’ve also noticed that if you reset the software (push both steering wheel controls down) right before you park/exit the vehicle, it will then go to sleep after 10min. Once you drive it again, sleep problems come back.

sgoodmanesq | 2018年6月4日

Same problem — lost 30 miles of range over 24 hours while not in use. Called HQ and was told they would send me an email within 72 hours, but never got an email. Probably a firmware issue that will be addressed in an update.

CarlEngel | 2018年6月4日

Same issue here; upgraded to 20.5 while at the SC late last week and lost 30 miles over the 48 hours it was there (odometer didn't even move a mile). Historically it's been ~3 miles per 24 hours. No 3rd party apps or anything. I mentioned it when I picked it up, and they brushed it off as "it powering up to keep to battery cool when parked in the sun." I didn't buy it, but maybe it was something to do with being connected to the SC's wifi or something, so I let it go. It seemed ok for most of this weekend, but now I can hear the contactors opening/closing every 10-15 minutes since I got home. We'll see how much is lost overnight (not plugged in), and if it's out of the normal band, I'll be calling support on my drive to work in the morning...

Colatabajonies | 2018年6月4日

Same thing @CarlEngel. I started noticing issues Friday night/ Saturday. Saturday night and Sunday were fine, but then it came back last night /today.

I hope they fix this issue fast....it’s costing us all money!

CarlEngel | 2018年6月4日

Well now with the house quiet I can hear the contactors being very periodic with their opening and closing. Double-clunk (what I recognize as them closing), wait ~55 seconds for a single-clunk (opening), wait another ~30 seconds for another double clunk, and so on.

At ~85 seconds per on-off cycle, that's about 1,000 open/close cycles per 24 hours, which is about a year's worth, assuming you drive 2-3 times per day on average. They better fix this soon before the contactors wear out!

CarlEngel | 2018年6月4日

Just got off the phone with customer support. They captured a data log while it was happening and will be looking into it. They had me do an MCU reset to see what happens, and it seems to have stopped.

They are supposed to get back with me in a day or so to follow up. I'll update on here with what they figure out.

Colatabajonies | 2018年6月5日

Can’t wait to hear what happens! Thanks for taking this on by the horns @CarlEngel!

CarlEngel | 2018年6月5日

Good news is the MCU reset seems to stop the contactor cycling; I lost 0 miles overnight (after losing 5 miles in 7 hours before resetting). So if this starts happening to you, try an MCU reset.

randydarr | 2018年6月5日

@CarlEngel Excuse the ignorance but what is an MCU reset? Thanks!

Colatabajonies | 2018年6月5日

That’s a temp fix though. Once you power up, drive, and park, the issue will come back!

slasher0016 | 2018年6月5日

Drain is not supposed to be more than 1% per day per the manual. If it's worse, contact Tesla.

MarylandS85 | 2018年6月5日

@randydarr
MCU means media control unit—basically, the center screen. You can reset it by pushing in the two steering wheel buttons (push the wheels away from you/into the steering wheel) and holding them in until the screen goes black. Eventually, the Tesla logo shows up, meaning the screen is rebooting. This is best done when NOT driving. Technically, you CAN do this while driving, as the car’s basic driving functions still work, but it is not recommended because you won’t have feedback about speed, etc.

Colatabajonies | 2018年6月5日

I just got off the phone with Tesla. They captured logs during the times I mentioned were problematic (ie 2AM when the car was making a bunch of noises while I should have been asleep). They mentioned they saw a bunch of errors related to the charge port (ie charge port error. Unable to charge). This is strange because I didnt even have the charge port open or engaged during this time.

Hope it gets escalated to Tesla engineering, but I would ask anyone who hears their car stay on for hours while it should be sleeping (listen for a tone in the drivers side front wheel well)....call Tesla support and give them the time windows.

CarlEngel | 2018年6月5日

@Colatabajonies glad you called Tesla and they were able to pull logs! The more data they have the better chance of fixing it.

I've been hearing a fair bit of clunking coming from the garage again this evening, and lost 3 miles in the past 3 hours... I'm going to try a few other things to see if it affects my insomnia-plagued Model 3. If nothing else works, I'll do another MCU reset before going to bed.

Colatabajonies | 2018年6月6日

@CarlEngel... next time you hear a lot of clunking coming from the car (or notice it not going to sleep), go over to the charge port door, put your ear up to it, and tell me if you hear ticking.

I have a theory that the charge port is the root cause of this, as it for whatever reason keeps thinking the car is about to charge, but it errors out. All of this keeps the car awake. This would explain Tesla telling me about all of these “unable to charge. Charge failure” errors.

CarlEngel | 2018年6月6日

Here are the things I tried last night.

Turned off phone (in case the app was messing with things). No change.
Using the key card (phone still off), unlocked car, powered up, drove, parked, locked. No change.
Turned phone back on, reconnected app. No change.
Reset MCU. Cycling stopped (as expected).
Using phone as key, unlocked, powered up, drove, parked, locked. No change (still not cycling).
Went to bed, woke up to 1 mile lost, so stayed asleep overnight.

Looks like it's not as simple to reproduce as putting the car into drive and back. I wonder if @Colatabajonies theory on the charge port is involved is on to something. I charged at work during the day before the cycling was noted in the evening on both Monday and Tuesday. I won't charge at work today and see if it happens this evening or not...

kktong88 | 2018年6月6日

Reset didn't seem to help my situation. I lost 10 miles in 10 hours parked in the garage last night. Hopefully this gets fixed because I didn't have this issue during the first 4 weeks of ownership... Odd that it didn't start happening right after a new update either.

randydarr | 2018年6月6日

@CarlEngel I'm running 2018.20.5 Can't troubleshoot why it won't sleep sometimes. Two nights ago we lost about 15 miles over night with app turned off. Could hear the clunking in the evening before bed. Last night it seemed to behave and stayed asleep. Woke up and the App wouldn't even work for a while (on neither my nor my wife's phone), but when it finally started working, we observed the car only lost 2 miles over 12 hours. I'm guessing this bug will be remedied soon as people keep reporting. I reported it.

jithesh | 2018年6月6日

@joyner.cn I would not use any third party apps/websites to monitor/access my car because I do not know what they are doing in background. And I am also concerned with their security.

Can the tesla service person tell how many times the car is being waked up and by what? I believe tesla should have some battery usage statistics like out phones has.

CarlEngel | 2018年6月6日

@randydarr, next time the clunking happening often, try the MCU reset (hold down both steering wheel buttons for 10-15 seconds). It's worked for some of us here to make the cycling stop, at least until the next time you drive it.

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