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How bad are Michelin 4S in the snow?

How bad are Michelin 4S in the snow?

Am doing a ski trip from San Diego to Utah over the holidays and would prefer to take a Tesla assuming no big storm, but how bad are the 4S tires in the cold? Clearly if I lived in the snow they would need to be changed, but one trip does not make sense. Would an AWD P3 on 4S tires be better or worse than a Model S RWD on all season tires?

Hate to do it, but may just have to take the 4x4 truck :(

Bighorn | 2018年12月13日

Someone posted about their car skating down their driveway in Park.

Bighorn | 2018年12月13日

Worse than Model S almost certainly.

Magic 8 Ball | 2018年12月13日

Don't they have a low end temp rating of like 45 degrees or so? If you are going to use them outside of factory specs I would be more concerned about safety.

HughManatee | 2018年12月13日

I'd take the S. The 4S are slippy in the cold.

coleAK | 2018年12月13日

Unusable and dangerous

From Michelin: “The Pilot Sport 4S excels in warm dry and wet conditions, so like all Max Performance Summer tires, is not intended to be serviced, stored nor driven in near- and below-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice.”

Magic 8 Ball | 2018年12月13日

From the tirerack site:

Tires exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 40 degrees F (5 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed in any manner, such as by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle.

Flexing of the specialized rubber compounds used in Max Performance Summer tires during cold-weather use can result in irreversible compound cracking. Compound cracking is not a warrantable condition because it occurs as the result of improper use or storage, tires exhibiting compound cracking must be replaced.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pil...

howard | 2018年12月13日

Don’t know I replaced mine with 18” Michelin X-Ice Xi3 as soon as the temps dropped. It is a beast now.

JAD | 2018年12月13日

OK, thanks. Guess the consensus is they mean it when they say don't drive them in the snow.

rsingh05 | 2018年12月13日

I have had UHP summer tires in the past on AWD and RWD cars on the east coast. Absolutely no traction, not much the AWD can do about it.

I'm planning a ski trip from SF to Whistler and will need to get 20" A/S tires - the P4S would be a no go. From what I hear on TMC A/S3+ have very good summer traction (at least for non-track use). The problem is everyone seems out of stock so may need to get a non-branded tire which I'm not happy about.

As for the S with RWD, it may perform fine with all seasons but some mountain areas require AWD with M+S tires depending on snow conditions (California has R1/R2/R3 controls depending on conditions). So during R1/R2 conditions, it won't be legal to take a non-AWD to Tahoe even though the car may be able to handle it. R3 would require chains on top of AWD and M+S tires. Not sure if Park City etc have similar laws. Perhaps someone with direct experience there can chime in.

posinator | 2018年12月13日

San Diego to Utah! Welcome! I drove my LR RWD M3 18" Aeros from SD to Park City, UT a couple of weeks ago thru a raging blizzard in Nephi, UT. Car felt great at about 45 mph, no issues whatsoever. All the other cars were following in my tracks, except the pickup truck spun out in the ditch.

I also use "Zero" to commute around Park City for work (ski instructor) about 40 miles a day. I ordered the Tesla snow tire package and hope to receive that soon. The Salt Lake City SC has promised to have a Ranger come up the hill and swap my wheels. In the meantime, I have no problems driving around. Just got back from Ikea in Draper (only Ikea in UT), and yes, you can fit a Morgedal, Bennasen, Espevar and sheets in the back and still have room for a passenger. It snowed around 12-18" last night and was about 10 degrees when I started driving. I charge in the garage on 110 but am scheduled to get 240 14-50 soon.

There's lots of M3s and especially MXs that drive by and wave around here. The closest SuperCharger is in SLC at the Showroom which is a nice place to hang out and charge. They complain about smoggy inversion days, glad I'm not contributing with car exhaust. Please leave your truck home and bring the M3!

jrlevy | 2018年12月13日

I'm was on the Michelin Primacys that come stock with the 18" wheels when he got hit with a surprise storm in the New York area a few weeks ago. They weren't terrible but they weren't good by any means.

Just switched over to X-ice Xi3s about two weeks ago, which is about the best way to guarantee we won't get any snow for weeks to try them out.

rsingh05 | 2018年12月13日

@posinator - are there laws restricting use of RWD/FWD during snowstorms in Utah? I know California has them in the mountain regions (see my post above).

posinator | 2018年12月13日

@rshingh05 - some places, like the base of (Little) Cottonwood Canyon, have Highway Patrol ensuring vehicles are either AWD/4WD with snow tires or have chains, sometimes requiring chains to be mounted.

I grew up in the Bay Area, went to school in UC Davis, so have driven over Donner Pass many times. Utahns are waay better snow drivers than Californians, and have far fewer chain mandatory checkpoints.

I have chains (and tools, compressor, plug-kit, etc) in the frunk for the few days a year where that might be an issue. I got some low profile Z-style cable chains, haven't needed them yet... I got my M3 in May before AWD was an option. Will I get the AWD Y? Definitely!

vts747 | 2018年12月13日

We had a storm yesterday here in Utah, I drove my M3 AWD through the storm and it performed acceptable an all seasons Michelins. Not a great traction on ice (had to switch to low regen and chill mode), but manageable, did OK in a few inches of snow. When the traction was lost, I was able to bring the car under control easily, but not sure how it would handle on the black ice with a higher speed or heavy steering. Summer tires are no-go, especially for Park City if it is snowing.

rafia.luqman | 2018年12月14日

4s were terrible in the snow, don't do it. I drove mines and it was slipping more a wet deck on a cruise ship.

Syed.Hosain | 2018年12月14日

Max-Performance Summer tires should never be driven in snow or even near-freezing temperatures. They will become rock hard, like billiard balls, and slide in a heartbeat.

All-Season tires are a compromise - neither as good as true Winter Tires in cold weather, nor as good as Summer tires in warm weather.

Best and safest to get an extra set of cheap wheels and use good Winter Tires (Michelin or Pirelli) when in snow country for significant periods of time - even with AWD cars.

JAD | 2018年12月14日

If it is sunny, I will take the P85 otherwise I have no choice but the F150 4x4 which I hate driving, buying gas for and polluting, but if there is significant snow, sounds like I have no choice.

Sorry and thanks from a native californian about summer tires in the snow as I never took the previous sports car to the snow before getting the Teslas which are so much fun to drive AND work for road trips.

Brianmsmith1981 | 2019年5月21日

I have a model 3 dual motor and drove all winter in Colorado on the 18" All Season tires and they did great. Decided to switch to my 20s with Micheline Pilot Sport 4s here in mid May thinking it was safe. It was about 40 degrees yesterday and there was rain/snow in the forecast for later in the evening but didn't look like much was going to happen so I decided it was ok to take the car out. On my way home it started really dumping snow and started to stick to the roads. That was by far the worst driving experience I've ever had in the snow. The tires were terrible. Never again will I take the car out with those tires if there's even a chance of snow... I guess next year I'll wait until June to put them on the car.

dwejr99 | 2019年5月22日

I haven't had an issue with mine. Live in Co spgs and drive an HR each way to work. Don't drive like an idiot and shouldn't be an issue. I keep it in sport and don't adjust braking. Absolutely no problems in 17k miles.