German study says model 3 pollutes more than a diesel

German study says model 3 pollutes more than a diesel

zerohedge. com/news/2019-04-21/new-study-shocks-electric-cars-considerably-worse-climate-diesel-cars?fbclid=IwAR1Pc_Gw-yHbUxPEda3CpJwUEy498CVvpwJl1NvIyZsUGg8kZj2Fg8GRKdc

"German researchers criticized the fact that EU legislation classifies electric cars as zero-emission cars; they call it a deception because electric cars, like the Model 3, with all the factors, included, produce more emissions than diesel vehicles by Mercedes."

Quite the statement.

Bighorn | 2019年4月24日

I had a distant relative forward that story to me. The fact that he reads zerohedge tells you all you need to know. I was impressed that I got a thumbs up emoji back after decimating the key arguments in the article.

Garyeop | 2019年4月24日

This from the country that brought you "clean diesel".

leo33 | 2019年4月24日

Zerohedge is a conspiracy/psudoscience website with an alt-right, pro-Putin point of view. It's not suprising thay they would push a study that has already been debunked. It does raise the question, why are pro-putin propaganda outlets pushing anti-tesla disinformation?

Just_Ted | 2019年4月24日

All right, a couple of things:

1. The study's math is off by at LEAST a factor 5, and maybe as much as 20. (they use a battery life of 10 years and 94,000 kilometers! [about 58k miles]) I will put that many miles on in two years. I am going to drive this battery until about 300,000 MILES... (5x as much).

2. Why do these studies ALWAYS burden BEVs with EVERY ounce of carbon in the production... (e.g. "... we assume the office of the mining company for the Cobalt is running the AC at a cost of 296g of C per ton of ore..." etc.). What about the C cost of all the aluminum and magnesium in the block of ICE? What about the extraction, refinement, and shipping of the oil that becomes gasoline?

Ugh, at least my car is 100% powered by renewable energy AND I will be maximizing the "sunk cost" of its manufacture over 10 years. (and I am fairly positive that all the Cobalt and Lithium are going to be recycled)

Bighorn | 2019年4月24日

Cobalt is also being eliminated from Tesla batteries. Never mind the fact that manganese isn’t used in car batteries, though it is needed for steel production.

sananpx | 2019年4月24日

Tesla is going to hurt German car industry most, so no wonder. I read a study one day that coffee is bad and next day coffee can save you from cancer and heart attack. So studies are paid by someone and tell what they were paid for. I know I like my Tesla and it cost much less for me to drive, it is not creating any pollution, my electric bill is 10% more so electricity can't add more pollution then gasoline. Some time believe in simple stuff and common sense.

Madatgascar | 2019年4月24日

Tesla is pushing on all fronts, to clean the manufacturing process and energy generation, as well as to minimize hazardous waste. California is doing pretty well with cleaning its grid. When Tesla’s gigafactory and superchargers are solar powered and they eliminate cobalt and other rare earths from their batteries, Germans will lose in the straight-up EV to EV comparison. Better get cracking.

Smhach | 2019年4月24日

I know this is low hanging fruit but I can't resist. I wonder if they got their emissions data from this study:

jimglas | 2019年4月24日


Magic 8 Ball | 2019年4月24日

Ya Ya

apodbdrs | 2019年4月24日

Pure "BULL"! Next we hear that they conducted a study on the benifits of smoking and how much better it is than not!

Magic 8 Ball | 2019年4月24日

A lot of folks around here smoke sour diesel and claim benefits from doing so, just sayn'.

calvin940 | 2019年4月24日


That's the best Onion article evar!

"German study says model 3 pollutes more than a diesel"**

** Sponsored by the fossil fuel industry.

coleAK | 2019年4月24日

First off there is no reputable sources in the cited article. It is not a peer reviewed scientific study. So that being said we should not be discussing its validity because it’s not valid. Just someone’s not evidence-based opinion. As for the clean energy side of things Germany is growing by leaps and bounds on the solar wind production.

Tcloutier5890 | 2019年4月24日

Das b.s.

RES IPSA | 2019年4月24日

Depends on what is used to generate electricity for your Tesla. Some owners run their electric cars on coal... others on wind and solar. My M3 is powered by natural gas.

RES IPSA | 2019年4月24日

And if you don't care too much about the ecology of a natural river, hydro is one of the best ways we can power our cars.

RES IPSA | 2019年4月24日

Now that i think about it, I guess one could reasonably argue that I still drive a "fossil fuel vehicle"

leo33 | 2019年4月24日

RES IPSA is spewing half-truthes and misinformation. You'd have to work really hard to make a plugin-electric more polluting than ICE. According to UOCS, plugin electerics are cleaner than ICE even in states with highest % of electricity from coal. Furthermore, electric grid power will only get better as dirty, expensive coal is replace by cheaper, cleaner renewables like solar and wind.

lilbean | 2019年4月24日

Zerohedge. Haha!

Bill Korea | 2019年4月24日

I read a fellow from Daimler stating “as it is now, manufacturing an electric car pumps out significantly more climate-warming gases than a conventional car, which releases only 20 percent of its lifetime CO2 at this stage…”
In other words, if an electric car is powered from green energy for its operational lifetime, manufacturing the vehicle releases nearly 100 percent of its lifetime CO2. Clearly this is much worse than the 20% of a conventional vehicle? The reality is that legacy manufacturers are facing smaller profits with EVs, and an ignorant consumer can be talked into buying just about anything.

jimglas | 2019年4月24日

And smoking is good for you

gballant4570 | 2019年4月24日

Psychotic delusion. Invented by humans.

Rt002k | 2019年4月24日

I have wondered and marveled at how it is possible for so much knowledge to have been lost from the ancient civilizations for so many centuries. And then I encountered Flat Earthers and other things that are flat out denied even though the information and proof is readily available at our fingertips. Ignorance is infectious.

RedPillSucks | 2019年4月24日

Does anyone ever compute the carbon footprint of mining for and processing coal,
or for drilling for oil and processing it into diesel or petrol?

andrewlee05 | 2019年4月24日

German auto manufacturers are suffering the most from Tesla's M3 sales. Makes sense.

bpatter123 | 2019年4月24日

We agree the BS is strong with this one. But to the extent there is even a sliver of insight, it is the profoundly stupid decision by Germany to transition to solar/ wind by decommissioning the Nuclear power plants rather than the agreed deadly Coal plants.

finman100 | 2019年4月24日

do this google search: "why electric cars are always greener"


for some reason posting the actual link is not working.

worth reading even if it is Netherlands-focused.

eandmjep | 2019年4月24日

As some stated above they neglect to include all the carbon used in the production of an ICE as well as the fuel. I have had to argue since getting my M3 to several individuals that setting aside all production for comparable vehicles, the production of electricity (coal or whatever) compared to the extraction transport and refining of gasoline and the carbon footprint that generates. Tesla' s are cleaner and more efficient. That aside I could care less,the it's the best car I have ever owned.

FactDoc | 2019年4月24日

And then it’s gonna be an article about how jews are polluting the earth more than the gazed jews, history repeats itself

I want to wish a sincerly good rest of eternity well spent in hell to all the nazis and gas-paid-lobbyist false journalists polluting the earth with their insanities

finman100 | 2019年4月25日

thank u Bighorn.

jimglas | 2019年7月16日

a new fish?
Still a troll

fish90 | 2019年7月16日

What do you mean?

Magic 8 Ball | 2019年7月16日

Fresh fish fresh fish fresh fish..........................

jimglas | 2019年7月16日

heh …..

TabascoGuy | 2019年7月16日

I would like to see more sea perch and flies on that.

Fixed it for ya...

Magic 8 Ball | 2019年7月16日

Diesel shmiesl, have you seen this?

carlk | 2019年7月16日

"As some stated above they neglect to include all the carbon used in the production of an ICE as well as the fuel."

Right. All one needs to know is refineries use a lot of electricity. It takes about 6 kWh of electricity, good for ~25 miles of EV driving, to get one gallon of gas. The argument should stop right there.

kevin_rf | 2019年10月30日

I see the spanners are Bank

wasp | 2019年10月31日

This study is complete bullshit.
I also crunch some numbers, including full lifecycle of both cars, polution created to produce the energy used ( diesel and electricity)..etc using governemental and independant sources.

Creating, driving, and recycling and EV polutes far far less than with an ICE car

andy.connor.e | 2019年10月31日

Count all the hazardous materials (and liquids) in an ICE vehicle.

coselectric | 2019年10月31日

The Germans have advanced technology that makes their diesels pollute as much or as little as they choose just by tweaking their software. It's amazing, really. It is expensive software, though, cost VW $25 billion to deploy.

andy.connor.e | 2019年10月31日

Imagine what VW could have done if they spent $25 billion on EV development instead of spending that on trying to "clean up" diesel emissions. These car companies are not even trying to spend their money wisely.

Bighorn | 2019年10月31日

And now the Germans are pretending to have a faster car st the drag strip, which the OP points out in another thread. A real FUD generator.

neezer | 2019年10月31日
neezer | 2019年10月31日

lol yeah, right, that's why diesel tech has been officially abandoned by several of the main European automakers already, but they also announced officially that their future focus is on hybrids (can't just throw all those near-future engine builds into the trash along with their investments in the production line and contracts with parts suppliers) and EVs solely ...

Big_Ed | 2019年10月31日

It may be true here in Tampa, since our power company is almost 100% coal. North of us, where it's mostly nukes, or in the pacific NW where there is lots of hydro, probably a different story.

Bighorn | 2019年10月31日

Coal is close/on par with a Prius. Still not as bad as a diesel.