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Cybertruck legal in EU

Cybertruck legal in EU

If Tesla elects to sell the Cybertruck in the EU, it will require it to meet EU standards. Tesla is very familiar with such standards as all its vehicles are sold in Europe to meet such standards. It's unclear that the Cybertruck will need to meet EU's pedestrian requirements for small vehicles, being a truck. We're not aware of any trucks in the EU that currently meet the pedestrian requirements of sedans and other small vehicles.

Unlike other most vehicles sold today, Tesla vehicles avoid hitting pedestrians as part of the free safety package on every vehicle they sell now. This same safety system is included standard in the Cybertruck, making the Cybertruck one of the most pedestrian safe trucks sold anywhere in the world.

FactDoc | 2020年1月3日

The full self driving will be a nice adjunct in the holistic approach described in the pedestrian safety study on the link below, really interesting read on a complex science depending on multiple factors.

https://www.vda.de/en/topics/safety-and-standards/pedestrian-safety/impr...

“In order to further improve pedestrian protection, in addition to the good knowledge of the current accident, the creation and evaluation of injury risk functions is important. Only through the objective assessment of the risk functions can meaningful measures for the further optimization of protective measures be derived. The vehicle manufacturers have therefore, in close cooperation with the “Verkehrsunfallforschung an der TU Dresden GmbH” (VUFO), prepared a study on the "Methods for the creation of injury risk functions based on real world accident data" which, in addition to evaluating various methods for creating these functions, also updates risk-of-injury functions for adults and the elderly defined as a function of collision speed. The database for this evaluation is the analysis of the GIDAS (German In-Depth Accident Study) database with a focus on vehicles that have been launched since the year 2000. The statistical model of binary logistic regression forms the basis for the injury risk function in pedestrian passenger accidents. The collision speed of the car has the greatest influence for the injury severity of the pedestrian in car collision. The age of the pedestrian is also a major factor influencing the severity of injury of pedestrians. It includes several direct and indirect physiological influences, such as body size, bone density, musculature or even reactivity. However, the course of the age influence is not known exactly and individually very different.

In the future, measures to improve the active safety of vehicles will have a relevant impact on accident statistics. Emergency brake assistance systems with pedestrian and / or cyclist recognition will in many cases reduce the collision speed or completely avoid the accident. As a concomitant measure, measures to further improve the infrastructure (for example, pedestrian precincts at intersections or centre islands at wide intersections, crosswalks) must be rigorously implemented in order to ensure a holistic approach to avoiding pedestrian accidents.”

https://www.vda.de/dam/vda/Medien/EN/Themen/Sicherheit-und-Standards/Sic...

FactDoc | 2020年1月3日

vda.de/dam/vda/Medien/EN/Themen/Sicherheit-und-Standards/Sicherheit/170330_Final_Report_Injury_Risk_Curves_Pedestrian_VDA_VUFO.pdf

On page 14, they start listing the different factors impacting a potential effect on fatality rate during an impact.

“Vehicle specific characteristics
E.g. vehicle age, existence of passive safety systems, front shape, etc.”

And page 17 on this document might show the best schematic on the effect of the angles on a pedestrian.

wiki.unece.org/download/attachments/46006287/DPPS-1-07e.pdf?api=v2

kaffine | 2020年1月3日

Maxxer

At what size is it considered a commercial truck and falls under different rules? While I consider the Cyber Truck small that is compared to standard 1 ton trucks in the USA. From what I have seen pickups are not common in Europe and the ones they have are smaller closer to 1/4 ton trucks the Cyber truck is comparable to the F150 which is a 1/2 ton truck.

FactDoc | 2020年1月3日

“According to the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations (FMCSRs) definitions section, a commercial vehicle is defined as a motor vehicle that:

” . . . has a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), whichever is greater.” (49 CFR § 383.5(1))”

https://www.michiganautolaw.com/blog/2019/09/25/when-does-ordinary-vehic...

“Commercial trucks are classified according to the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR). The United States Department of Transportation classifies commercial trucks with eight classes: Class 1- GVWR ranges from 0 to 6,000 pounds (0 to 2,722 kg) Class 2- GVWR ranges from 6,001 to 10,000 pounds (2,722 to 4,536 kg)”

“A commercial motor vehicle (CMV) is any vehicle used to transport goods or passengers for the profit of an individual or business. Examples of CMVs include pickup trucks, box trucks, semi-trucks, vans, coaches, buses, taxicabs, trailers and travel trailers.”

“A pickup truck can be considered a commercial vehicle even though it is not a traditional semi-truck or big-rig truck under certain circumstances. ... Given this definition, it's critically important to remember that a CMV is not defined by the actual weight — it is defined based on the weight rating.”

kaffine | 2020年1月3日

Maxxer What is the limits for Europe not the US?

FactDoc | 2020年1月3日

Too late for me to do your google search
Going to sleep, big hockey game tomorrow

andy.connor.e | 2020年1月3日

Not sure why Maxxer is so sensitive about this

kaffine | 2020年1月3日

Maxxer

Since you seemed so up on European automotive safety laws I figure you would know what makes it a commercial truck and have different rules than a passenger car.

It seems you are in the states I would guess Michigan. Why are you even concerned about the Cyber Truck in Europe?

Looks like the Red Wings don't play the Golden Knights until 3/21 so it can't be that important of a hockey game :)

FactDoc | 2020年1月3日

Karine
I’m in Canada
I play hockey Tomorrow, I don’t watch sports
I didn’t know about commercial trucks until November 31st
Never owned one, never used one
But I am buying the Bruder EXP-6 camping trailer for the kids
And need something to haul it
Safety first @andy
Désigne second

andy.connor.e | 2020年1月3日

Safety first like dont walk into a street without looking.

FactDoc | 2020年1月4日

@andy “Safety first like dont walk into a street without looking.”
Don’t slip on black ice hidden by a thin layer of snow when turning a corner and hitting a pedestrian on the corner of a sidewalk
Don’t hit a pedestrian walking in the middle of the street going to work because sidewalks have 2 feet of snow accumulated during the night and machinery didn’t have time to clear the 200 square miles of sidewalks on Montreal island from 6AM to 7 AM.
Don’t get it by a drunk driver
Don’t get hit by a driver having an heart attack
Don’t get hit by a distracted driver receiving an important text message

jordanrichard | 2020年1月4日

Dude, looking before crossing the street is completely different than your subsequent ramblings. Not crossing a busy road is 100% in one’s control.

Where is your outrage about people being hit by a motorcycle, scooters, anything on a street that goes faster than 5 mph.

andy.connor.e | 2020年1月4日

You literally just described situations in which a collision is unavoidable. Lets see someone survive that getting hit by a commercial vehicle. I dont know what your point is anymore. I think you are upset about something else, and you're trying to make a point about something entirely different, for whatever reason you have for doing so.

FactDoc | 2020年1月4日

Your America self centered view of the car being the center of the World and that any other mode of transportation has to “look before crossing the street”.

As if 100% of vehicle-pedestrian vehicles were caused by some pedestrian who is always responsible.

There are unavoidable situations where there will be a frontal impact and the design of the vehicle has to maximize pedestrian safety, not your vehicle potential to jerk off by looking at it.

andy.connor.e | 2020年1月4日

Ya and this whole thing started because you're assuming that Tesla is not going to build the Cybertruck for europe. If we're going to assume bs, Elon probably never thought the Cybertruck would be popular enough for international sales. Clearly he was struct by the popularity enough to bump up the manufacturing date. So all that being said, i dont know what you're getting your panties in a wad about, when the truck is NOT DONE YET.

andy.connor.e | 2020年1月4日

If that link you posted about pedestrian frontal collision is a requirement to be sold, then you'll know if its legal in EU if you can buy it. You're just stirring up drama, the truck is literally not done yet.

kaffine | 2020年1月4日

Maxxer | January 4, 2020
Your America self centered view of the car being the center of the World and that any other mode of transportation has to “look before crossing the street”.

No that is just physics. What is going to take more damage a pedestrian or a car if they collide? What is easier to see a car with headlights on or a person wearing all black with nothing reflective on? It is in the pedestrians interest to look before crossing a road. I don't care if you put a mattress on the hood of a car the pedestrian is going to to significant damage if hit by a car doing 45mph. I don't expect a train to look before crossing a road but I check to make sure there are no trains coming before I cross the tracks in my car or on foot. The train isn't going to take much damage if it hits my car but I may not live if it does. It is in my interest to make sure the a train isn't coming before I cross the tracks.

Tesla has a team of engineers. I think they can figure out if their truck is going to pass the requirements for the different markets they are going to sell it in. I don't really see the truck being sold in Europe though. They tend to drive much smaller cars.

jordanrichard | 2020年1月5日

Maxxer, I asked this before but you keep deleting this thread. Since you have all the data related to pedestrian death/accidents with vechicles, what is the percentage of people getting hit crossing the street and in parking lots.

TeslaTap.com | 2020年1月5日

@jordanrichard - I created this thread because Maxxer kept deleting and reposting over and over again. Not sure why he is so hung up on this, but perhaps knows someone that was hit by a car. Anyway, no plans for me to delete the thread.

While I don't agree with his thesis since no one knows exactly how the Cybertruck is designed, the fact that all current Tesla vehicles, including the Cybertruck, has pedestrian avoidance, seems far more valuable than designing vehicles to hit pedestrians "nicely".

The Cybertruck may already be designed to meet the EU small car standards too - it really shouldn't be that difficult. The single sloping front may even be far more advantageous than a typical car where the pedestrian smashes into the windshield.

jordanrichard | 2020年1月5日

TT Oh, I know that. Just by the nature of a Tesla design, there is one major pedestrian rule they meet. All cars sold in Europe have to have at least 4 inches between the hood and the top of the engine. This was meant to help soften the impact of a person hitting the hood. Clearly Tesla have plenty of space under the “hood”.

FactDoc | 2020年1月5日

"TeslaTap.com | January 5, 2020
but perhaps knows someone that was hit by a car. "

Maybe I have treated 500 pedestrians struck by cars because I am an orthopedic surgeron, I have nailed about 100 open tibia-fibula fractures from direct impacts, nailed 200 femur fractures from high velocity MVA impacts, the plated ankle, tibial pilon, proximal tibial plateaux fractures and the rest are axial skeleteon lombar, thoracic and cervical spine fractures. Skull fractures and brain hemorrhage are transfered to the neurosurgeons.

You have no idea how lethal these pedestrian-MVA accidents are and we absolutely have to reduce their occurrence and reduce the damage caused by the trauma when inevitable. Yes, Full self driving, emergency brake assist and autopilot will reduce the number, bu the design of mass adoption vehicle has its role to play, public-health wise.

jordanrichard | 2020年1月5日

Maxxer, again, what was the cause of these people getting hit? Should we cover the front of cars with pillows so that when a pedestrian walks into the street because they are staring at their phones, they only get a bruise. Actually, a pillow hitting you at 40 mph will knock down and your head may hit the ground.

BadgerErickson | 2020年1月5日

PERHAPS pedestrians need the SJW knocked out of them to realize; being hit in the crosswalk is deadly, no matter what sort of "rights" you think you have as a pedestrian, or whether it was a Beetle a Fiesta a GTI or a CT ? Duh, stupid hurts. It's LEGAL in the EU already, get over it....

FactDoc | 2020年1月5日

50% if the 23 pedestrian deaths in 2019 in Montreal were due to older pedestrian, mainly baby boomers, not having the time to cross the street with the 30 seconds standard time set at every light. They have increased it to 45 seconds. 7 accidents were caused by a SUV arriving around 30mph on the left lane while a pedestrian was crossing the 3 lanes being hidden by the 2 vehicle on the right 2 lanes and the vehicle on the 3rd lane didn’t see it. They either accelerated or didn’t slow down to a full stop arriving at the intersection which was turning green for cars. No deaths for the pedestrians struck by cars. SUVs frontal impacts are more deadly because the skull strikes on the hood without having the full upper body absorbing energy from the impact. Pick up trucks will do the same if widely adopted without frontal impact energy dissipation from a central elastic crumple zone.

NB. Montréal fatality late is not really good compared to Copenhagen or other European cities that have educated drivers and designed streets really safely for cyclists and pedestrians. But the numbers are far better than any city in USA. However our numbers are getting worse for the first year since the SUVs sales just passed the car sales for the first year in 2019. So we basically had car design friendly-impacts protecting our pedestrians. Now that we are starting to have more SUVs on the road and now pick up trucks, fatality rate will go up if a specific protection crumple zone is not engineered in the design.

TeslaTap.com | 2020年1月5日

@Maxxer - Thanks for your background and for helping others. It helps to put it all in a better perspective. I doubt anyone is against for maknig pedestrian safety better. I would be cool if the Cybertruck is the very first truck to address pedestrian safety at a level of sedans. It may be entirely possible, despite its looks to the contrary.

Ross1 | 2020年1月5日

I would expect that Tesla will continue to put safety first with the CT. I expect they will set new standards of safety other legacy/classic pickups have never and can never achieve.
It is their/ our modus operandi.

Ross1 | 2020年1月5日

I feel privileged to interact with skilled professionals from so many fields. Thank you all, and I hope I can make a contribution fitting to that environment.