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Would Apple get similar response for Apple Car?

Would Apple get similar response for Apple Car?

What would you anticipate to be the reaction if and when Apple release their car?

And sight unseen too?

Would you be torn between M3 and iCar? What about your M3 reservation?
Are there any more early adopters out there to buy it?

so how many iCars for want of a better name, would sell in the first 24 hours? 500,000?

dd.micsol | 2016年4月4日

In my serious honest opinion-
NO!
Why?
No SC infra
NO proven track record of building a quality EV
No service centers anywhere-surprised they haven't started that yet to show they are serious. Can't fix a car at an Apple store!
First cars will be extremely high risk of having serious faults-Not where I would put my money.
Will there be apple freaks that need to have one-sure, but at what cost/risk/range/battery control environment/heat and cold not affecting battery range/ just way too much to risk buying an EV from a new company that probably hasn't done it right. Look at Leaf/volt/bolt-they don't have it right. It's a lot of money to burn for something not done right.

Again just my honest opinion. I was an apple shareholder for decades-sold with iphone 6 and very glad I did.
Stock is a joke for Apple now. Cook isn't innovative at all. The watch wasn't innovative-it was a follower move to sony/samsung/garmin/ and many other smart watches that were out there already. Apple is now a follower forever and not a leader. Tesla is a leader and will be for a decade at least.

Is it possible they could do it right the first time-highly unlikely.
Do they have the capital to try it? Of Course. But stockholders won't welcome it well. That's a lot of cash burning with no proof they can build a quality EV off the bat.

given the state of Apple-and its stock- I wouldn't be betting on a great EV from them.

Ross1 | 2016年4月4日

But you could get it on a monthly plan.....

dd.micsol | 2016年4月4日

I don't think that is realistic honestly. A monthly plan doesn't do Apple stockholders any good.

FelixMendeldog | 2016年4月4日

At least if Apple brings a car to market, one could be almost certain they would be smart enough to buy into Tesla’s ever-growing Supercharger/Destination charger network and plug standard unlike the indiocy we see from all the others with their plethora of frankenplugs and promises to build out their own ridiculous, proprietary charging stations…this would be good for everything. The goal is to accelerate the transition to sustainable transport, I trust Apple understands this—unlike the ICE makers. A car from them would only help.

starke49 | 2016年4月4日

No, this was THE EVENT just like a Woodstock!

KP in NPT | 2016年4月4日

I agree with Felix that if anyone were to finally take Tesla up on their offer to use SC's, it would be Apple. And what a force Tesla/Apple would be against traditional automakers, both on the SC network.

I doubt they would see the lines initially, however, because I doubt their first offering would be the same volume as the Model 3, which took so many years to come to fruition.

Red Sage ca us | 2016年4月4日

Yes. Tesla Motors used the Apple playbook for this. Surely it would work for Apple as well.

Difference being, Apple would probably release a car for $35,000 that was essentially the world's most perfect version of a fully electric Yaris. And, their Model ☰ Sedan equivalent would probably start at $55,000. The Apple Model S analog would have a price tag to rival a Porsche Panamera Turbo S Executive.

All those people who claim to want full integration of their iPhone with their car would line up for miles to hand over their dough.

carlk | 2016年4月4日

No. The game is over for Apple. It's pretty easy to see now it's going to be very hard for the Apple car brand to catch up with the Tesla car brand. My prediction is Apple's car program, if it has intended to actually produce cars, will be soon scraped. There is no way it can outdo Tesla in design, quality and most importantly value even if cars are manufacture outside the US. Apple might still develop software for other car brands though.

SeanB.UT.US | 2016年4月4日

Apple likes high gross margin and planned obsolescence. I don't think that translates well into the mainstream EV business.

The mainstream Model 3's margins should be slimmer than the S/X, but no Tesla model has any sort of planned obsolescence built in.

If Apple pulls the trigger on an EV iCar, even if they aren't as good as the market leader it's still a good thing. Apple might be able to sell an EV to someone who might not otherwise buy a Tesla and that is one less fossil car on the road.

georgehawley.fl.us | 2016年4月4日

Apple is so far back in the dust that, even if they come up with a prototype that is attractive, they have no credibility. They have never designed and built a car. They have no place to build a car yet. They need a battery plan for large volume sales. They need a charging plan. Strike three.

mos6507 | 2016年4月4日

I think ultimately Apple will do with Tesla what Disney did with Pixar. They will buy Tesla and keep the brand identity intact. The two companies are culturally compatible enough that this would work, and each has something the other company could benefit from. Tesla with Apple's coffers would have no difficulty scaling out production. And Apple gains a whole new market at a time when it has kind of run out of ways to expand.

georgehawley.fl.us | 2016年4月4日

@mos: too logical to be probable :-)). If I were running Apple, I would aim a car to start in a market niche that would be not likely to be addressed by Tesla "soon". One idea would be a sporty coupe that has super car performance but is half the price of the Tesla Roadster and more roomy with seating for 5 and Gull Wing, Scissor or Falcon Wing doors. With lighter weight than MS and more power than M☰ it could be a little faster than the MS performance versions.

cephellow | 2016年4月4日

@georgehawley,
does it fly too? If Apple (or anyone else) could do the car you describe, Elon Musk would have already done it.

Ankit Mishra | 2016年4月4日

Nooooooo. If Tesla allows Apple to buy it, Tesla will be dead. I won't bash Apple here, I don't support this idea. Tesla, avoid Apple like its a fatal sickness. These are two different cultures.

carlgo | 2016年4月4日

Apple just doesn't seem to have that sharing and collaborative DNA. It is hard to see them being a minority partner and obeying Musk. It is hard to envision Musk sitting in meetings and being dictated to by Apple executives.

However, Apple is under pressure to do something with its gigabillions. It could certainly get a better return on its money now languishing in off-shore banks by being a partner in the various Tesla/Musk enterprises.

Apple needs to redefine itself anyway. How long can it ride the wave of silly social media and thinner phones? Why not enable the disruption of the transportation industry, power generation and storage, space travel, communications and maybe even the Hyperloop project? Even the colonization of other planets (of course Mars would be renamed the Red Apple).

What is intriguing is that it would only take a small percentage of its cash hoard to get into these waters, hardly a risk at all.

aarond12 | 2016年4月4日

Let's take a historic look at this: Apple did not make the first MP3 player. The field was full of difficult-to-use models. Apple transformed the market by making MP3 players easy.

Apple did not make the first cell phone. The field was full of difficult-to-use models. Apple transformed the market by making cell phones easy.

Apple will not make the first EV. The field is (currently -- no pun intended) full of low-range EVs and some expensive high-range ones. How can Apple improve on the current situation? With the Bolt EV and Model 3, there really isn't a way to improve. The Model 3 is near perfection; Chevy isn't planning on making a significant amount of Bolt EVs to make a difference.

Apple, in this case, must be an also-ran to the Model 3. The high-end EV market is saturated and is always where new EV companies start (read: Faraday Future, etc.). Will Apple be an also-ran? Not a chance.

So, how will Apple differentiate themselves? Lower price? Not without a partnership with Tesla or some other battery and manufacturing company such as Magna Steyr. Maybe partnerships with multiple companies. The only thing that will differentiate Apple from those others is software. Even Tesla will give Apple a run for their money in that department.

carlk | 2016年4月4日

I haven't heard Faraday Future mentioned for a long time. Is that joker still around?

MarlonBrown | 2016年4月4日

I have experience building auto manufacturing plants. It takes few years till the whole infrastructure gets built and refined. I seriously doubt Apple is planning to build the drivetrain (battery and chassis). At the same time I am not sure Apple would be interested in building the body and interior either. It is more likely than not Apple is planning to develop the software and infotainment system. Maybe hire a BMW OEM to deliver the interior of the car? Not sure where they would be getting the battery and chassis though. Maybe they have already an agreement with Tesla for that. If I Apple wanted to put together the manufacturing development, the factories should be running 3 years ago to have cars ready by 2018.

quinney | 2016年4月4日

The misunderstanding and misinformation I read here about Apple is only exceeded by the misunderstanding and misinformation I read about Tesla on Apple forums.

carlk | 2016年4月4日

Care to elaborate?

Haggy | 2016年4月4日

Officially, Apple never said they would make a car. They never said that if they make a car, it would be an EV. I haven't been paying much attention, but a good way to guess would be to pay attention to job postings. It wasn't hard based on Tesla's job postings to predict autopilot well in advance.

Ross1 | 2016年4月4日

Doesn't Apple's Project Titan employ over 1000?
And aren't many ex Tesla?
(Musk: it is Tesla's graveyard of staff he would let go anyway)

TSLA and AAPL investments

wolfpet | 2016年4月4日

>Would Apple get similar response for Apple Car?

Only if they offer one in gold! ;-) ;-)

adtp85 | 2016年4月4日

Don't they already have apple stores everywhere, imagine an apple car in the middle of there store :), hopefully their genius bar would be able handle any queries;-), plus for any unsolvable issue, you may simply get new apple car as they do with your iphone ;-)

mbb | 2016年4月4日

There's not much Apple can leverage from their iPhone and iOS expertise to make EVs. Apple doesn't have experience in critical EV technologies - battery, drive train, safety, interior and exterior design, manufacturing, supercharger, autopilot, service. Apple's great advantage in its market is due to hw/sw integration. But in EV market, it misses too many pieces and Tesla has all. Furthermore, model 3 reservations took a huge part of the EV demand. The whole iCar thing is wishful thinking by Apple investors to justify its future earnings.

Chunky Jr. | 2016年4月4日

If Apple announced a really cool looking car that was affordable (similar to Model 3), a lot of people would line up to reserve it. Not nearly the number that Model 3 got, but still significant. There are lots of Apple fans.

However, I think it is a moot point as I can't imagine Apple actually building a car.

SoCal Buzz | 2016年4月4日

How about a joint partnership. Apple invests billions and provides long term OS / user experience in the car, and Tesla gets the money and backing it actually really needs to scale production and finally hit the date, while delivering to huge M3 backlog. Tesla can continue to lead on battery tech, EV power train management and the SC strategy.

Chunky Jr. | 2016年4月4日

@SoCal Buzz : +1

I think that would be a win-win for Tesla and Apple

Ankit Mishra | 2016年4月4日

No. Any association with Apple will be bad for Tesla. Tesla is a company that is working (alone) in a complex area with all its might to make humanity better.
Apple is a company that makes consumer electronics (which numerous other companies do too) for select few people with intention to maximize wealth among select few. And it focuses on marketing and human interaction rather than innovation.
Tesla needs freedom to show people how better the things can be. There is no other company that can stand with Tesla without slowing it down, not even Google.

quinney | 2016年4月4日

@carik: If by "elaborate" you mean feed trolls, no, I don't. Not in either forum. I just find it interesting that the troll arguments against both companies are so similar, and partisans of both companies take offense at them, yet are oblivious to the irony when they indulge in trolling against one another. For example: Products made by [company] are overhyped and overpriced for what you get. The only reason they sell them and that they have the highest customer satisfaction in their arena is that their customers are sheeplike cult members in the thrall of a charismatic company founder. [Company] is doomed, because their competitors are capable of making a product just as good or better. It is only a matter of when it will happen. This argument is made when company=Apple and company=Tesla.
There are several others. Hope that satisfies your hunger.

carlk | 2016年4月5日

Well there is a case to be made that Apple has not had an innovative new product since Jobs was gone. There is a serious doubt in people's mind that it will ever have one again. The Apple of tomorrow would be more like Microsoft, Intel, IBM of today than the Apple of yesteryear. Don't agree? Make your point. It's not trolling.

FelixMendeldog | 2016年4月5日

Quinny for the win.

Supraman | 2016年4月5日

It's a pity Tesla didn't take at least one leaf out of Apple's approach to product launch events.

"So, when will the Model 3 be available? We start shipping at the end of the month"! :-)

carlk | 2016年4月5日

That's a great example. People are still complaining Tesla's lack of communication but Tesla could never gotten away with telling you absolute nothing until a month before product shipment. And people think it's weird that Tesla fans will place reservation sight unseen but Apple fans don't think it's weird that they all think Apple is going to make the greatest car in the world when nobody even know if Apple is making anything. BTW I have owned the very first iPod, iPhone and iPad. I'm no Apple hater. I'm just telling you what it is like. There will be no Apple cars after last week's event. Mark my words.

Chunky Jr. | 2016年4月5日

I'd be shocked if Apple actually built a car. I'm a huge Apple fan, and worked there for several years, but Apple building a car seems crazy.

I could see them building an R&D center for automotive technology and use it to build an OS for cars that includes maps, autonomous driving, networking, cloud services, developer SDK, etc. They may have to do this or Google will own this market.

carlk | 2016年4月5日

Apple will not make a $50K car with $5K margin to compete with Tesla even if it could. And the fact is it likely could not. Making a car this good is not an easy task. Apple's track record since Jobs was gone has not been that good. Apple watch or iPhone SE are at best disappointments. It's way more complex than those to make a car of the future. It also makes one wonder if Jon Ive's importance is overrated. It's still the guy at the very top that matters.

cpmarino | 2016年4月5日

Apple innovation has slowed down largely because there ain't just that much left to innovate with certain products. What can you possibly do to make the iPod better? Thought control so while I'm running on the treadmill I don't have to manually forward to the next song every time one of my kids' dumb Justin Bieber songs starts playing? (actually, that would be awesome, get on that Apple!)

Seriously, there will always be innovation, but the first few years of the iPhone it was like night and day difference with each version ... had less to do with Steve Jobs and more to do with the fact that Apple has already recognized every damned innovation you can make and has implemented most of them! Bigger and flatter are not innovations. But, honestly ... how much farther can they go?

Sure, with EVs there is certainly more room to innovate but ultimately Tesla will make a car that does everything short of flying, and then what? They'll be in the same boat. You just can't innovate forever.

If Apple built an electric car they'd sell just as many as Tesla, so long as it was comparable. People still line up for a new iPhone when it's the same thing they already have only .55mm bigger or has some new software feature or whatever. I'm not convinced that Apple wants to be in the car building business, but I'd love to see them produce a better user interface. CarPlay is nice, but that's not even the tip of the iceberg. Not sure what Tesla has up it's sleeve for the M3, but partnering with Apple would be a positive step in my opinion. Not just for the software features, but for the connectedness. Lots of room for improvement there.

mbb | 2016年4月5日

Apple in its 40 years history, devoted itself to design amazing computation devices that have a taste. Kind of crazy if they want to start from scratch to become a car company simply because car has a display and a body too. Yet they certainly have the money to do it

carlk | 2016年4月5日

@cpmarino

Apple slowed down because it has becoming a large and conservative bureaucrat with priority being making good numbers quarter to quarter. That's the common problem with any older and estabilished companies. When Elon says Apple is the graveyard of Tesla engineers he was not kidding. Young guns with big ambitions would rather to go work for small start ups or at least Uber, Google or Facebook, which are all more innovative companies than Apple. There is no way you could mesh Elon's rish taking style with that Apple conservative culture. The only possibility is Apple to investe billions but still let Elon to keep Tesla as an independent company. I don't believe Apple would be interestd in doing that either.

Ross1 | 2016年4月5日

How is it that Apple and Tesla, with 'countless'thousands of employees can keep secrets so well?

What threat overshadows the employees?

Surely a lot of you in Ca have friends who work there and slip snippets?

So what is Project Titan doing, with 1000 employees? Not just burying them surely.

carlk | 2016年4月5日

@Ross

Here is another thing about Apple old and new. You never knew what it was making until Steve Jobs showed new products on the stage. He would do anything to punish emplyees or suppliers if they leak info to the public. But that was then and it is now. People now pretty much know exactly what a new product is weeks if not months before the release. Cook is not able to run a tight ship as good as Jobs could.

Tesla is still very good at able to keep cofidential info. No one knew the nosecone-less X front, the double hinged FWD design, the pano-windshield or the auto open front doors until the reveal event. So is the Model 3. No one had the faintest idea what it's like until the day Elon showed it to everyone. This gives you some idea of how much discipline the two companies have/had.

You made a good point that the reason no one knows what the Apple car is like could be that there isn't any.

Ross1 | 2016年4月5日

Don't think it was I who made that point..

However, how do they keep the secrets?

It is not true that 'no one knew'. Thousands of staff knew.

hobowankenobi | 2016年4月5日

Funny to read all the wild and erroneous Apple hate. Not surprising though. As someone who has worked in tech and intimately with Apple tech and resources since the mid '90s, it has been really entertaining to watch all the hate, FUD, doom predictions and nay sayers over the years....very often been proven wrong.

Watch out. They are just a company, and they make mistakes a missteps. But less than most of their industry. Betting against them on anything they set their sites on is a risky position to hold.

They have the resources and supply chain savvy to do it. It comes down to IF they want to make a long term commitment to this market, margins, and support structure to proceed.

If they bought or partnered with Tesla, you would see production increase, back logs of orders shrink as manufacturing rapidly came on line due to ample capital, and new models make it production faster due to ample engineering and design capability.

I want to walk in and see (and buy) an Model 3 now...not in 3-4 years due to a now massive backlog.

I want to see an alpha of the Model Y in 6-12 months, not 3-4 years.

I want to see a Tesla truck and Miata killer alphas in 18 month, not 5-7 years.

Without partnership from Apple....or someone similar (and is arguable there is no one similar...) Tesla now could be in a very tuff spot of being TOO successful for its own good. Hate 'em all you want, but Apple has perfected releasing great products at a break neck pace. And over the years, their "misses" and "too little, too late" release continue to shrink...to a industry low.

Tesla needs this. Desperately.

Apple going it alone is a much bigger mountain to climb. They can, but it could be 5-8 years. Or more. As mentioned correctly, Apple has years of infrastructure to put in place to build and support their own, in-house built vehicles.

But wait! Apple just has stuff assembled in sweat shops in Asia! They cant build anything!! Everybody knows that!!!

Not everything. They are quietly coming back to the US with some higher end manufacturing. Watch, and disregard the warm and fuzzy marketing, but pay attention to US workers in high tech, robotic manufacturing:

(sorry, can't link to it. you tube: Apple - Making the all-new Mac Pro)

A long shot from a car........but not starting from zero. Not by a long shot.

ctorrillo | 2016年4月5日

Apple has a good fan base for Phones and PCs.. However, even those who own Apple devices do so because there's little out there to compete - android phones and your generic PCs are junk compared to an iPhone or Mac.

Even the most devout Apple fan knows that along with that nice style and innovation, comes at a inflated expense with generally poor support. Apple makes really bad choices regularly, their software is insanely buggy and always has been, basic features are missing from everything they do. They compromise quality and features, then market it like it's designed that way from the beginning.

I've had every iPhone, iPad, Apple TV and more. I buy lots of Apple products - but they are not that great on their own, they are just much better than the alternative.

I honestly believe an Apple Car would be a disaster sending the company into an unrecoverable downward spiral. The iCar would launch with only a left turn signal (for simplicity), you could change the background of your display to something really cool, but it won't tell you what time it is or when you tire has a flat. If you wanted to upgraded from standard battery to the extended it would cost $35,000 extra (the iPhone storage is $100 up charge for a $2.11 chip). The car's software would constantly crash and leave you stranded, safety would be compromised for looks. And I'm certain the first model wouldn't come with a trunk, air conditioning, or radio... Because they need to save a few cool features for the iCar2.... They would market the crap out of it and when you needed service you would just have to wait 3-5 years for them to fix something that's a defect in their software. Then with the iCar2 hits they would shame all their existing customers then send disable commands to current products via forced updates that limit your cars top speed to 13mph. That's their operating model.

If they came out with a car, you would never see me in it for the first three years, I'd be afraid for my life, Apple is not a company who's hands I would put my life in.

I really do appreciate Apple in their current space - what they have done in the phone,tablet, PC space has been fantastic.. They have no brains or business for automobiles.

Ankit Mishra | 2016年4月5日

@hobowankenobi
Don't kill the goose. The Model 3 in its current form is due to the culture of Tesla which cares for humanity. The only thing Apple cares about is making as much money it can. You might see Model 3 and Model Y sooner if Apple buys Tesla but it would kill all that Tesla stands for. If Apple was in control of Tesla, there wouldn't be any Model 3 in my opinion. And even if it was, it would be a mediocre product made just to squeeze some more money out of people.
Please be patient. It's not Tesla fault that no one paid attention to electric cars. Why the "great" Apple didn't thought about making them before Tesla did? Now when Tesla has made people realize their importance, people want a magic wand that will wipe out decades of ignorance and churn millions of cars at once.
Tesla is already doing everything necessary for fastest possible launching of Model 3. Remember, it was there idea and they don't need to be told to hurry up.
Apple has been churning out same mediocre products again and again. There is not much wrong that go with them. It focuses on human interaction, marketing and aiming at people with money. It's certainly the best phone making company, but it's nowhere near Tesla in terms of innovation. And I think Apple has coasted way too long on Steve Jobs legacy, it's out of fuel now. Let's see what the S7 impact is on its sales. Android manufacturers have realized they need to listen to Google.
Apple has a limited vision of the world. It just want to enjoy the bright spots in every culture and nation. It has no vision as to how to improve the darker spots of humanity, it's problems. Tesla is a different company. It's like Google, just more hardworking and more aggressive. Apple should worry about itself. It's a one trick pony. As I said, Android manufacturers have learnt to listen to Google. In my opinion, Apple should worry about its smartphone business as of now.

Darthamerica | 2016年4月5日

If Apple were to build an electric car, it would be titanic. The technology is not difficult and they already use all of it. They also have the kind of money necessary to fund it properly. They have the supply chain expertise to deploy it. Finally, they have the kind of fans they it would be hard to imagine it not selling extremely well.

jamilworm | 2016年4月5日

I think it's silly to hear people saying that Apple would never build a car because they are behind the curve from Tesla and the model 3 is perfect so nobody would ever want a different car. That's just ridiculous. People want different cars for a huge number of reasons. Apple could make a car with 40 color options and people would buy it even if it sucked because someone out there wants a pink car no matter what. Someone would buy it because they are stuck in their ways and want a traditional dash board instead of a tablet and HUD. Someone would buy it because they want a 2 door hatchback. There is an enormous chunk of the market that Tesla cars do not satisfy. Even if you look at the bolt, which is obviously inferior to the model 3, I bet you they sell out of them because everyone has different tastes. Another issue is Tesla keeping up with demand. Tesla might continuously be 2 years back-ordered. And for a lot of people a shorter wait would be more important than the perfect car.

Ross1 | 2016年4月5日

There is now another but similar thread for Google car

mbb | 2016年4月5日

First they say you can't build it, then they say you can't sell it, then they say you can't deliver it, then they say competitors will copy it, then you win

Ross1 | 2016年4月5日

Then he says, lets do the same thing on Mars

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