So, any opinions on whether the first iteration of the Model 3 should be a sedan or hatchback?
So, to clarify, are you suggesting that some customers may be interested in a hatchback design? Intriguing!
Since they all disappeared from the front page, the discussion must be over.
Noooooo, because JT just brought it back............ :-)
With that said, his point is spot on.
We Scandinavians, sedans are the biggest joke, IMPOSSIBLE to sell, period, US its simply quite different. This will of all reasons have an impact on slaes of Model 3, a HUGE impact ! Later on selling such a car, wow that´s going to a challange..This makret is of importance, ref Elons...
Musk indicate a larger "crack" will come, Part 2, I really doubt thatto be the truth. Will never happen !
It appears the decision has been made by the Chief Product Architect at Tesla Motors: It will be a Sedan, because that is most appropriate for the size, shape, and market segment. Thus, my opinion does not matter.
One more thing, all scandinaivians LOVE hatchbacks more than anything else, and may be more, station wagon, you see them EVERYWHERE.
I'm indifferent on hatch/trunk issue. That said, I guess with 300,000 reservations for the Model 3 with a trunk, it's clear Tesla has picked correctly :)
I guess Scandinavians will be left having to buy Model S or X, not such a bad alternative.
Red...why do all the competitors this differently ? VW eGolf, leaf, bolt, Hyuandai IONIC, KIA Soul, etc etc etc etc etc, its due to only one reason, practical reasons ! In Scandinaiva yout will never spot a sedan any longer, they are rare, very rare, well in between, old cars, veterans etc. Surely, this is a lost case, but the media is all over this case, with huge laughs :-)
Elon, next time you pay us a visit, check all the hatch all over :-)
What about lighted visors?
Why do Scandinavians love hatchbacks? Low population density? Need to carry stuff on their own? Just curious.
@TeslaTap - many, or more likely, most, of those reservations were made by people that didn't know it was a trunk.
@PBEndo - I fixed it for you
many, or more likely, most, of those reservations were made by people that didn't care one way or the other. :)
The reason those "competitors" are hatchbacks is because in just about every traditional car manufacturer's line up "hatchbacks" are entry level cars and that is exactly where the car companies and their dealers, want EVs to be. they do not want their primary "bread n butter" cars replaced by a comparable sedan. Tesla has everything to gain and the other companies have a lot to lose.
Hatch or trunk doesn't matter to me provided the smooth low C/D lines are retained. However, after staring at the prototypes for a while I think the ratio of glass above the belt line is a millimetre too much. A tiny lowering of the roof line would improve the looks and reduce the C/D as a bonus.
Really tall guys can open the sunroof!
Ankit...read my lips, the Scandinavian countries do have the worlds highest income, living standard, happiest on UN´s ranks. All and everyone do have there own cabins in the country side, the everage family, 2 kids, a need to bring kids to kindergarden., a drive to IKEA quite so often...all this adds up up to one single must...spaceous cars > hatches, station wagons. This youtube illustrate all this...In this video, 9 out of 10, are hatches/station wagons. When GM grabed SAAB, tranformed it to a sedan, the sales stopped in a snap !
What is a fastback--should that be part of the question?
We're both right ;)
Most didn't know and didn't care.
@PBEndo - yep!!
A hatchback, a trunk - they are just doors of a different name, independent of the price or quality of a vehicle. The hatch happens to be more practical, but seems to be considered as a low-cost feature in the USA. The trunk of a car is somehow favoured as a more secure location for holding weapons and bodies.
When more space is required, the "practical" SUV is chosen. This is like a station wagon or a covered pickup truck with extra ground clearance - and a hatchback. The rear door is useful when the vehicle is not backed against a wall, but the extra ground clearance is almost always a complete waste, and on the road adds neither sport nor utility. But do be patient - the SUV is evolving into the crossover, and eventually back to the station wagon - a detour of only a few decades.
Despite the high cost of vehicles, most consumers are total victims of marketing. They don't seriously consider the features they will use all the time.
It's a Sedan as Confirmed by Musk, although they will widen on the trunk opening to allow easy access to put bikes or larger items.
I wish it was going to be a hatchback, but it’s to going to happen. I still reserved one because, regardless, Model 3 is going to be amazing, just maybe not able to hold some things I had wished it would hold :-(
^ *NOT going to happen. Autocorrect…grrr.
Americans are used to cheap gas and U-Haul $20 rental trucks so we don't understand the desirability of wagons in Europe. In Europe, it's one economical 4 banger car that you can afford to own and they use it for everything from towing to moving stuff. The model 3 has a towing option so at least that's good news for Europeans, an optional aerodynamic trailer would give Europeans the utility needed and keep production costs low.
TESLA IS AMAZAING. I do vote for a hatch and think it will only help Tesla in the long run.
Ø listed, "VW eGolf, leaf, bolt, Hyuandai IONIC, KIA Soul, etc..."
And... exactly ZERO of those vehicles is designed to take on the BMW 3-Series. None of them. Instead, they compete with each other for the right to convince 'the masses' that owning an electric car requires higher expense and greater inconvenience.
The Model ☰ is meant to serve as a replacement for ICE vehicles. It is designed to take on, and defeat, the perennial leader of an entire market segment worldwide. To do that, it must be successful in its home territory first, and foremost. Here in the US, that means having a traditional automotive layout with a trunk.
Beyond this, are packaging concerns. Yes, the utility of the Tesla Model S is absolutely unmatched in its class. However, one of the constant complaints regarding it are always about headroom for rear seat passengers. Another is rear visibility. Both may be due to the Liftgate, and the reinforced supports that are needed to have one.
I'm 6'-1" tall and I had no problem in the rear seat of a Model S. But I know that my height is largely in the length of my legs. People who are shorter than I am often sit higher in the saddle, because they have a longer torso than I do.
With a focus on safety, and comfort, and market segment in mind, Tesla Motors had a decision to make in regard to Model ☰. I'm sure they would have LOVED to build it as a Liftback. They chose not to, specifically to address the concerns of those who have complained about rear seat headroom. Because, in order to meet the needs for safety, the location of the cross-member would have been large, and intruded upon the space where heads need to be for rear seat passengers. It also would have reduced rear visibility by decreasing the available window area with the frame of the Liftgate.
On the other hand... I rather liked the Liftgate design for the Acura RSX. I sort of hoped the Model ☰ would have a similar setup. Of course... The RSX is gone, along with the Integra badge, and the 3-Series rolls on. So... Yeah.
I'm from scandinavian, u r an american, or ? Have you ever been over here ? You will In a blink of an eye witness very very few sedans. Probably a cultural issue all this, but sedans are a joke over here, they simply dont do the job. Its like having a huge handicap In the everyday life. There are so many similarities between US and scandinavian, but some are not...I just have to stick to my S :-)
Tell me, I read somewhere Elon tweeted about an enlargement of the lid...correct or wrong ?
Yes, Elon has mentioned they could look into making the trunk opening larger, but not a full hatchback. Maybe there is a compromise... I'm hoping they make the opening larger for easier access, keep as a sedan for faster production (less changes), but add an optional tow hitch to provide significant added storage/luggage capacity.
In the long run, I believe this is where the difference will be between Model 3 and Model Y. The Model Y will be the small SUV/CUV, therefore have the "hatchback", etc.
@phi - Culturally, here in the US, the tiny hatchbacks are considered the jokes or very entry level vehicles. That isn't to say anything about Scandinavian culture. Just taking your point further.
To clarify, SUV/CUV are not taken as entry level in US. It's those super small hatchbacks like the Leaf, Bolt, Honda Fit, etc.
The point is that the presence of a hatchback does not make a vehicle entry-level. If anything, it makes a vehicle more practical for loading cargo. Some other features, like ground clearance, are mostly useless and wasteful for operation on the road. Useless features become popular because of powerful marketing to weak consumers with accessible money. It is dangerous to call it culture.
In the U.S., hatchbacks are in the entry level category. Yes, I know the Prius is not "entry level" price wise, but it is size wise. I don't know of any mid-large size hatchback cars apart from the MS and the Audi A7. I know that for a while GM did have a hatchback version of the Malibu, but I don't believe that lasted very long.
Thats how things are in Scandinavia, PERIOD ! Sedans are simply terminated...its all explainded basically by some huge difference in culture. We scandinavian travel to our cabins every weekend (sort of), this way of life, tons of examples on request :-) Bottom line, sedans are useless fr the everage scandinavian, sorry, they rae simply to complex in the day to day life. Its different in the U S of A...
Hatchbacks are wonderful things. When open, they can swallow surprisingly large objects. I have transported dishwashers and drop-in stoves in hatchbacks over the years. People are not supposed to drive around with the hatch open in conventional cars because of the danger that carbon dioxide will get sucked into the car from the tailpipe. But that wouldn’t be an issue with an electric car, would it?
Even Tesla fan extraordinaire Bjorn Nyland has criticized the trunk design. He is that fellow from Norway who won both of the first two Tesla owner referral contests. Among his prizes was a Tesla Model X Founders Edition valued at more than $140,000. He is not the sort of fellow who goes around bashing Tesla.
He was one of the 800 people invited to the official unveiling party last Thursday. He got a ride in Model 3 and made a video of his impressions of the car. He says the trunk opening is just too small, making the Model 3 a “wifey car.” He says when he and his spouse go on road trips, they will take the Model X because of its generous cargo capacity and leave the Model 3 (when his is delivered) at home. That’s not the kind of negative comment one expects to hear from one of Tesla’s biggest fans.
I hear what you are saying. I think Tesla understands different world markets require different products. If Tesla were to cater to the world's largest BEV car market, it would be China.
I don't know what the Chinese market likes but I think Tesla does and must know in order to succeed there. Likewise, Tesla must know what the Scandinavian market prefers in order to succeed there as well.
I hope Part 2 reveal will shed some light on this and other topics.
Here in the USA, hatchbacks are not well received even though they are more practical, it is a perceived image situation. Tesla understands this and will sell Model 3 as a trunk here.
Here are some German luxury brand hatchbacks that didn't fare well in the USA:
The Model 3 isn't going to be everything to all people. Ø you just said it yourself - the X will be for road trips. The 3 is for something else. The S something else. The Y will have its purpose. JEEZ. Enough already.
Funny about the Model 3 being a "wifey" car. That's exactly what mine will be. Not a bad thing at all. She loves it!
Got it, but those 2 cars are entry level within BMW and MB line up.
Model 3 is entry level as well.
The BMW 318ti was an UGLY car.
Those old Mercedes hatchbacks are nice looking, but not quite there.
That's why I personally preferred the Acura Integra/RSX.
I'm in the US and I'm a huge hatch fan. It is a rarer thing here, though. That being said, I never thought I'd ever even consider buying a sedan again, but the Model 3 is too good in every other regard to pass up. And Elon has at least explained a bit about why they made that choice. It will be interesting to see where they go with it from here.