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Single or dual charger?

Single or dual charger?

What type of on board charger should I get,
Single or dual ? I'm planning on charging in my garage with a nema 14-50 outlet. I drive on a daily basis around 50 km.
Thanks in advance.

Bighorn | 2016年5月1日

Single

NKYTA | 2016年5月1日

Single is fine in that scenario.

Bighorn | 2016年5月1日

@NKYTA
+1

apeter1972 | 2016年5月1日

What about when using superchargers or other charging stations? I read somewhere that dual chargers is like future proofing your car.

Ruby110 | 2016年5月1日

Superchargers don't use the onboard chargers. We have dual chargers and a Chademo adapter. We use the Chademo far more often than the dual chargers.

I doubt we will order dual chargers with our model 3 when the time comes.

mrdaniel | 2016年5月1日

@apeter1972 If you can imagine a scenario where you will be visiting friends or family who have a dual HPWC who live in the middle of no where in the winter, then dual chargers might make sense for the times you visit them. (Or, if you are a soccer mom.)

Supercharging is going to keep expanding. I wouldn't worry. Also, destination chargers do not guarantee dual charging capabilities. Places want to be hip and attract Tesla owners with their HPWC, but skimp on the installation of two 50 amp lines because it can get expensive.

jordanrichard | 2016年5月2日

A little but premature to be deciding on equipment options when no one knows what the options are going to be. The car will obviously have a single onboard charger. So, with that, a standard 14-50 will suffice. At least with the MS/MX, a 14-50 outlet gets you 28 (MRH) miles of range per hour.

Dithermaster | 2016年5月2日

In the Model S the new standard on-board charger just went from 40 amps to 48 amps, which gets you about 34 miles of charge per hour from an HPWC enabled for at least that amperage. The upgraded optional charger is now 72 amps, or roughly 52 miles of charge per hour. Given that choice I'd take the standard charger unless I consistently needed to fill the whole battery in short order.

It was a good move to upgrade the standard charger; I'd expect the Model 3 will learn from that (and who knows, might not even offer an upgraded charger option if the standard is good enough).

dd.micsol | 2016年5月2日

I agree with everyone here but keen on important thing in mind. Make sure you can charge your car all the way during off peak hrs.
If a single gets you there - go with that. If you're like me and drive 200m each way and are on the grid-dual makes more sense. Off peak hrs here are 12am - 6am. If you get the really big battery pack-just check this out. Most will be fine with single. I have solar, wind, and water power-I put in a double as I plan to upgrade or get another car 10 yrs down the road which would probably want more juice faster and it doesn't cost me any more other than the parts.

dd.micsol | 2016年5月2日

arrrg.. that should be keep not keen.

Haggy | 2016年5月2日

With an NEMA 14-50 outlet, if you start charging at 11 pm, and charge at 40 amps with a standard charger, you'd add 203 miles of range by 7 am. That's more than 90% of the range of the standard battery, so the worst case scenario of getting to your garage with zero miles of remaining range would still allow a standard charge by the next morning. And if you wanted to start an hour earlier so you could get to 100% for a long trip, that would be doable too. These are the most extreme cases when charging at home, and more likely you will plug in each night, charging will start at 11 pm, and by 12:30 to 1:30 you'll be charged.

If you are on the road and use superchargers, it won't make a difference. If you use destination chargers at hotels, if the car gets charged overnight, it won't matter. There might be scenarios where you are on the road and have limited time at a destination charger and won't be passing a supercharger on the way home. That's never happened to me, and I've never even needed a destination charger at all, and the supercharger network is still growing.

I'd suggest that you pick a few places you might drive to, and then go to evtripplanner.com and plug in a few sample trips, selecting a Model S 60. Chances are your range will be better even with an entry level battery, so that will give you an idea of how things will work with superchargers with the existing network.

Of course all this might change as the network expands, but you won't have to decide about a charger for at least a year. Your area might be quite different from mine, so I can't say whether destination chargers will be a factor. If you think you will need to charge a lot during the day between trips, that might be a consideration. If you'll likely be home for a couple of hours before you leave again, it might be a moot point.

apeter1972 | 2016年5月2日

Thank you all for your great advice and tips, I really appreciate it you guys have been really helpful.

david.jones24 | 2016年5月2日

It all depends on geography, really. I live in the south, and there are trips that I make regularly without a supercharger anywhere nearby. So, when it comes time to order, if that's still the case I'll upgrade my charger just to be safe.

Darryl | 2016年5月3日

It all depends on what your normal driving habits are and whether you frequently take long trips. It also depends what your budget is for your car and the cost of upgrading your electric panel. Most people deplete only 20-30% of their battery on day-to-day trips. Therefore they can easily get away with a 50amp circuit as taking 4 hours to replinish what you have used that day is acceptable. Others use their car and travel several hundred miles a day and probably would benifit from the 100 amp charging.

A correction on whether it will matter for destination chargers. Msny have 100 amp circuits so if you want to charge quickly then you will want the 72amp charger. As more and more people go EV people will be in lines to charge at destination chargers you will want to charge as fast as possible. The option on the Model X was initially $1000 but increased to $1500 after about two months. I would assume it would probably be no more than $1000 on the Model 3.

At home you also have to exam whether you have the capacity. It is not merely having the physical space in your panel but most homes built more than ten years ago only have 150-200 amp panels and service. Therefore they don't have capacity and it would cost $2500 or more to upgrade panel (if even possible) to upgrade the service.

I know many who don't even have the capacity to add a 50amp circuit and have to charge on a 30 amp 110 volt circuit which takes forever.

I planned for having sufficient capability at each of the spaces in my four car garage. I put in 2-100 amp and 2 -50 amp. This was all planned for when I built my house three years ago and I went for a 600amp service. The two 50 amp charging outlets are on generator in case we loose power for long periods.

The new HPWC that just came out allow for you to connect multiple HPWC to the same circuit. It will adjust amps based on the load.

eriklarsonaz | 2016年5月3日

Keep in mind you need almost 20% overhead on your breaker to charge whatever it is you are going to throw at the car.

So 40 amp charger needs a 50amp breaker. 80 amp dual chargers needs 100 amp breaker and a MUCH thicker wire to the plug.

Most american houses are 200 amp Mains, getting duals and actually having it work will cost you decently.

Also making use of that Dual charger pretty much anywhere will be hard too.

Super charing is DC, like I stumbled on yesterday, getting the CHAmeDO adapter enables DC charging at over 115 miles an hour. Blink and most other networks have started switching to DC (futureproof). In the mean time the most you can pull from the non DC chargers is usually less than 35kWh.

Destination chargers as Ive seen them are parking spots in hotels. In otherwords I don't see people coming out and unplugging and moving their cars at 2am when down charging. This will end up in lines or "great I can't sleep here because the charger is always full" if the hotel only has a handful of chargers.

tfay412 | 2016年7月1日

@apeter1972 I don't believe there will be a dual option charger option. I noticed that only selected few model years of the Model S offer the dual charger. I don't believe a dual charger option will be available for this car. However if it does become available for any reason, Unless you drive a lot of miles in a day, I don't see the need for dual chargers.

Rocky_H | 2016年7月1日

@tfay412, Quote: " I noticed that only selected few model years of the Model S offer the dual charger. "

No, that's not quite right. Before the "facelift", where they put on the new frontend and HEPA air filter and such, all of the older Model Ses could have the single (40A) or dual (80A) chargers built in. After the update (and in the Model X), it is a single unit, but it can be either 48A or 72A versions.

What you may be thinking of is that for the first couple of years, the second charger was a selectable option in the order page. After a while, to simplify their build process, they removed it from the order page, and made it only a service center part to be installed later.

tfay412 | 2016年7月1日

Yes. And I believe the Model 3 will have the same upgraded charger.

Rocky_H | 2016年7月1日

@tfay412, Yes, probably so, but since it is just one unit, I actually wonder if they will bother having the two options of "low" and "high" power settings. They might just have it at one setting to simplify things.

tfay412 | 2016年7月5日

Elon Musk stated that all Model 3's will have super charging capability. So if I'm guessing correctly, it should be the high power charger. I could be wrong. I'm not an engineer. haha

Rocky_H | 2016年7月5日

@tfay412, Supercharging and the internal chargers have nothing to do with each other. The charging units in the car convert AC electricity to DC to put in the battery. The Superchargers and CHAdeMO do that conversion outside the car so they have high level DC electricity to put straight into the car's battery and bypass the charging units in the car.

tfay412 | 2016年7月5日

On the Model S, What are the charging time differences between the Low powered charger and the High Power charger? Will the lower powered charger at least go to the 50 amps? since it comes with a 50 Amp charging cord?

Rocky_H | 2016年7月6日

I’ll answer the second question first: A 50 amp circuit is really 40 amps delivered to the car. That’s required by electric code. It says that for any constant load (which car charging is always considered), the circuit needs to be 125% of the current delivered. 40A to the car is a 50A circuit. It’s usually easier to think of it the other way, though, since we’re thinking of breaker size first. 80% of the breaker size is the current you get. So the mobile charging cord with a 14-50 plug complies with this and gives 40A from the 50A outlet. The old single charger accepted up to 40A, basically for exactly that setup. The new one accepts up to 48A, so it will take everything you can get from a 14-50, plus room for a little extra. You would need a 60A circuit to get 48A of current.

Now for the charging speed differences. I usually just do a ratio from a known data point I have. At 40A, it’s about 29 miles per hour of charging. The ratio would be 40/29 = 48/X Solving for X is 34.8 miles per hour.

thecodingart | 2017年2月26日

After living with a single charger for quite some time, I took the plunge and upgraded my car to a dual charger. I should have done that from the start....

Frank99 | 2017年2月26日

It really depends on your use patterns. If you drive a reasonable distance most days, and charge at night (i.e. drive to work and back), then a single charger is fine. If you drive a lot each day, and come home for lunch looking for a charge, then dual chargers would be a great upgrade.

SCCRENDO | 2017年2月26日

@thecodingart. How much was the upgrade?