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Biggest Reason The Bolt is Not a Model 3

Biggest Reason The Bolt is Not a Model 3

The biggest problem about the Bolt is it's not designed for the masses, the Bolt will probably be a second car for most owners. The Bolt can't be driven outside its home radius. A Tesla can go on long trips from SF to LA and it would only take about 30 minutes to re-charge a Model 3 or the time it takes to go to the bathroom and grab some snacks.

The Bolt takes 9 hours to charge!

Even if you don't go on long trips, if you ever had a busy day of driving you might not make it back home in a Bolt. People run low on gas all the time, imagine having to wait almost a whole day to fill up a tank.

The fact is GM doesn't intend on backing it's electric cars and there will be no infrastructure to support the Bolt.

Putting aside comparing a luxury sedan to a five-door eco hatchback. Lack of Quick Charging alone I think will make people forget the Bolt was ever compared to a Model 3

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GM is too big to shift gears or as Tesla did, start with a clean sheet of paper. There's an ideological problem that has caused big car companies to not see Tesla as a threat and furthermore not know what to do about it. The Bolt is the product of a gas car company trying to copy Tesla, not compete. It's the equivalent of a politician when running for office pandering to an audience, trying to relate but just coming off as awkward. The Bolt is the Mitt Romney of electric cars.

But I do see a way GM could change this because we want more competition in this space to drive innovation even further. And this is what I'd do if I was Marry Barra:

Create a new Skunk Works EV division of GM comprised of people both talented and excited to work in EV. Give them the founding and hands off approach that they need.
From a customer facing side I think GM should embrace the past and call this division "EV-1" (I made it hyphenated on purpose). This new group needs to poach some the bad assness that Dodge is currently running on. Their first car should be called the "EV-1 Wrath" and the commercials will write themselves as you see it clawing it's way from being buried underground in the back of a junk yard with lightening and thunder going off in the background. This is something people could get excited about.
[Google EV1 if you are too young or don't know]

tesla | 2016年5月14日

True. A gaping hole, that lack of DC chargers is. (that's my Yoda impression)

I've been thinking private enterprises will be populating the highways and byways with pay-as-you-charge DC fast chargers. ??

I was going to argue that I will keep an ICE for years even owning a 3, due to a lot of back roads type of trips, but I'll be darned if there aren't a string of supercharges already where I was thinking about.

No SC in Yosemite Valley yet! That's gotta change soon. The valley is its own little micro-climate of smog trapped down in there. In fact I just realized the solution to Yosemite's decades long problem of whether to allow cars in the valley.... only allow BEVs.

Seems GM has got to lower the Bolt's price though. And soon. Side by side why would anyone pay $2500 for a Bolt over a 3? Seriously. Is there any reason one would choose the Chevy?

Drdpharris | 2016年5月14日

If one lives in Detroit?

carlk | 2016年5月14日

GM has never intended to sell a lot of Bolts. They could not do it without something similar to the Gigafactory. Where is the plan to do that?

david.jones24 | 2016年5月14日

Because it's fugly.

melinda.v | 2016年5月14日

@Coastalcruiser because a lot of the general public is familiar the name Chevy and still doesn't know what to think of what Tesla is. Maybe once these 400,000+!!! Model 3s are out there, or the year or two after that, ideas may change, but until then, we are in a bit of a bubble I think.

Red Sage ca us | 2016年5月14日

Coastalcruiser: Yoda always spoke perfect Spanish.

sp_tesla | 2016年5月14日

Bolt 0-60 in slow 7 seconds

Ross1 | 2016年5月14日

@harris:
If one lives in Detroit, what a dilemma!

42,000 houses or one M3 , for $42,000

Red Sage ca us | 2016年5月15日

Wait... Someone will give you $42,000 to live in Detroit? Hmmm... Someone should tell them the offer is about $208,000 short...

carlk | 2016年5月15日

@Coastalcruiser

"Seems GM has got to lower the Bolt's price though. And soon. Side by side why would anyone pay $2500 for a Bolt over a 3? Seriously. Is there any reason one would choose the Chevy?"

And lower the price by a lot. Even for BMW an article said it will be in trouble because it would have to lower the price of its cars in order to be competitive with the 3. I think this applies to Mercedes and Audi too.

EVolution | 2016年5月15日

It would be a good car if it was 20 000$

david.jones24 | 2016年5月15日

It's heinous. I wouldn't buy it at any price. I guess some may buy it if they really need a car sooner rather than later, or if for some strange reason they like the design. Can't imagine why someone would pay 40k for that ugly thing though.

EVolution | 2016年5月15日

ok if you had the choice to drive a Chevy Bolt of a Chevy Camaro. Both cars free of charge to you shipped tomorrow morning to your address. What's your choice?

Madatgascar | 2016年5月15日

@EVolution, simple flow chart:
Do you care more about saving the planet, or getting some action on a Saturday night?
Planet => Bolt
Action => Camaro
Both => Model 3

Haggy | 2016年5月15日

The biggest reason the Bolt isn't a Model 3 is that they are dissimilar vehicles. Nobody would compare any other such vehicles solely based on price and MPG multiplied by what the tank holds and call them competitors based on that alone. One is being billed as a small crossover vehicle. The other is a sporty sedan.

Denys | 2016年5月15日

How did they come up with that name for this car: Bolt? When you think of a bolt, there is generally something associated with it, a nut. Could it be that's how GM perceives the person driving it? Then again, this is the same company that sold the Nova in Spanish speaking lands where it means "doesn't go". :-)

TeslaTap.com | 2016年5月15日

@Naramata - Maybe the "Dolt" was too obvious.

EVolution | 2016年5月15日

bolt = i3

Badbot | 2016年5月15日

any time I see a bowtie I think Dolt

afestini | 2016年5月15日

@Naramata
Associations can be weird. In combination with an electric car, you'd think a lightning bolt would be obvious. Maybe the name was already taken or they were worried about Pixar suing them...

Ross1 | 2016年5月16日

Possibly a connection with Usain Bolt I always thought.

EVolution | 2016年5月16日

Usain produces co2

mos6507 | 2016年5月16日

People associate the word "Bolt" with different things. To me, Bolt is the Disney movie with the Truman-show-like plot about the super-dog who doesn't realize he's an actor. John Travolta played him and he had a painted on lightning-bolt on his side.

I think the name of the vehicle is the least of GM's problems, though. They really should have just taken the Volt and created a full BEV version rather than going to a subcompact form-factor. I suppose there were technical challenges in using the Volt since it only has an EV-1-style T-pack rather than a skateboard.

Tropopause | 2016年5月16日

The Bolt has two purposes for GM:

Compliance for CAFE.
Bragging rights for beating Tesla to market.

Tropopause | 2016年5月16日

Model 3 has one purpose:

To accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass market electric cars to market as soon as possible.

SUN 2 DRV | 2016年5月16日

Bolt of Lightning

Bolt has a hatch, some people feel very strongly about that.

Bolt will likely have lower average average sales price than Model 3 due to dealer discounts, Chevy promotions, availability of non-loaded configurations.

I prefer the Model 3 but I also applaud anyone who chooses to buy a Bolt.

topher | 2016年5月16日

"Bolt will likely have lower average sales price than Model 3 due to dealer discounts, Chevy promotions, availability of non-loaded configurations."

And because dealers need to discount them to get them off the lot? :-)

When will this propensity to confuse configurations of cars on a lot (Chevy model) with custom built to your specs cars (Tesla model) end? All 400,000 Model 3 orders could be non-loaded if people order them that way. Even if Bolts have a lower average price that doesn't mean YOUR price will be lower, in fact, it is more likely to be higher, since you have less choice about what options you get.

Thank you kindly.

SUN 2 DRV | 2016年5月16日

topher: A dealer is highly motivated to sell you the car they have sitting on the lot. Hence a discount. Chevy also knows that their customers expect (aka demand) a discount so they build that into the MSRP.

Tesla to its credit treats everyone the same and charges them full MSRP.

But together this means that Chevy needs to set the Bolt's MSRP artificially higher than Tesla would to achieve comparable margins.

And yes you can order a non-loaded Model 3 but that will put you near the end of a very long line.

Drdpharris | 2016年5月16日

I think it is too early to be giving advice on ordeing in relation to queuing time. Its more likely to be your position relative to others in your area so as to efficiently deliver the cars. Also, the distribution wil be more equalitarian, since they will want to demonstrate that they can actually deliver $35k cars. This is a change from past practice. So it is not at all clear that choosing to load up on options will get you your car sooner.

SUN 2 DRV | 2016年5月16日

"So it is not at all clear that choosing to load up on options will get you your car sooner."

Elon has expressed a different thought on this....

mntlvr23 | 2016年5月16日

Elon did express a different thought on the matter, but that was in a call prior to the Unveil and prior to the announcement of the ramp up of 100,000 cars possibly delivered in 2017. It was not spoken of again during the unveil nor is it listed on the website under the delivery priorities.

Elon also said they were going to be fair, and that some deferred profit for a quarter was worth customer happiness (loyalty begets loyalty). So if he also said that you will get your car the quickest by ordering prior to the unveil, and if they can in fact deliver all of those in 2017 - perhaps optioning up is not such a big deal. It would be much more of a big deal when working with the very low production rates during the start of Model S. (Though it might be a wise rumor to keep around with M3 to boost options and profits)

Perhaps it is unclear, or perhaps it is wishful thinking. We will hopefully know more by Unveil #2.

jordanrichard | 2016年5月16日

The Bolt looks like any other standard 4 door hatchback. The Model ≡ has the sexy styling of the MS. Also it will have access to the supercharger network, allowing it to travel across country if so desired. The Bolt won't be able to do that without doubling one's travel time.

Drdpharris | 2016年5月16日

@jpehuber -- From the website: "In order to be as fair as possible, there will be a different queue for each region. And as a thank you to our current owners, existing customers will get priority in each region."
@mntlvr23 -- agree. I haven't found the quote of EMs comments.

mntlvr23 | 2016年5月16日

@Drdpharris: It is on page 9 and 10 of 15 of this link:

https://www.thestreet.com/story/13456288/9/tesla-motors-tsla-earnings-re...

Jamie Albertine (Analyst - Stifel Nicolaus):

" Great. Thanks for taking the question. On the Model 3, if I may, I think a lot of folks are trying to do work as it relates on the margin trajectory over time. It's clearly going to be volume-dependent and timing around the launch. I was wondering if you could help us understand, given that it's one-third of the transaction price of roughly your initial Model X deliveries, what are some of the efficiencies you're hoping you can draw upon, beyond the battery cost reductions?

What are you leveraging in the Model 3 from investments you've already made, and the knowledge you have around initial launch costs on the higher priced vehicles at this point?"

Elon Musk: "I think the way to think of the cost difference is really that the Model 3, being a sedan, it is about 20% lighter than -- and actually, quite a bit less complex to manufacture than the Model S. The Model S was really the first car we ever made ourselves. It was -- we were designing to make it work, as opposed to designing it from ease of manufacturing, whereas the 3 is really designed for ease of manufacturing.

Then we expect through economies of scale and general design improvements to get another 30% improvement. That's where the 50% improvement comes relative to the S. So $35,000 versus $70,000 of 3 versus S, is the way to think about the difference.

Our default plan, as we've done in the past, is that the initial sales are relatively highly optioned versions of the car. Because obviously, we've got to pay back the investment of all the tooling and everything. It makes sense to have the higher-optioned versions first. That's what we did with the S, and obviously again with the X.

While it was unfortunate the way the X pricing got reported, that they reported the fully optioned Signature series as though it was the base price volume number in some publications. This is just a misunderstanding of how things work. I think it's also normal to see this in many other industries. If Intel comes out with a new CPU or a faster CPU, or NVIDIA comes out with a new graphics card, in the beginning it's a lot more expensive, and then over time the price drops."

Drdpharris | 2016年5月16日

Thanks for that transcript. So it seems to me that they will batch customers based on location and place in queue, ask the batch to configure and then move optioned cars to the front. Hopefully we will get a more definitive idea when the time comes.

mos6507 | 2016年5月16日

"we were designing to make it work, as opposed to designing it from ease of manufacturing, whereas the 3 is really designed for ease of manufacturing."

I can see the 3 platform being Tesla's "K-car" style chassis which will host multiple vehicles like the Y and next-gen Roadster but one can infer from the statement above that they will need to eventually circle back and redesign S and X for ease of manufacturing too.

topher | 2016年5月17日

@joe
"And yes you can order a non-loaded Model 3 but that will put you near the end of a very long line."

Tesla can not push all the non-loaded Model 3 out indefinitely. If they don't produce any cars at the hyped price, the press will eat them alive. If one has a reservation numbered 100, one isn't going to get one's car at 400,000. The screaming would be huge. [I don't, so, I am waiting a while anyway]

Thank you kindly.

TeslaTap.com | 2016年5月17日

I shutter at any comparison with a "K-car", but you're right that it will be a platform that can expand with different variants similar to the S and X sharing the same base platform.

mntlvr23 | 2016年5月17日

I am with topher - Tesla will walk back the statement from the 2015 Q4 call.

My thoughts are that it will be: employees first, then previous owners in CA, then a limited additional number of early CA reservers, but then: batches of a few hundred to a thousand each starting to pepper all regions of the US (starting with previous owners then early reservers).

SUN 2 DRV | 2016年5月17日

Based on the rollout of Model X configurations and the June vs July availability currently shown on the MX Design Studio it's clear that Tesla's preference to ship highly optioned cars first / more quickly continues to this day. Certainly might change by the time M3 starts shipping.

But my point was and still is that the Bolt won't have a higher Average Selling Price than the M3, even though the Bolt does have a hight MSRP. (And I've reserved two M3s.)

jordanrichard | 2016年5月17日

Employees will most likely get their cars first, then the rest of the West coast. Elon said the West coast will get their cars first. I agree that they have to establish a cutoff point whereby they start delivering to the other regions and further start delivering lower optioned cars.

Red Sage ca us | 2016年5月17日

Someone in California will receive a base Model ☰ before someone in Illinois receives a fully optioned one. Someone in Colorado will receive a fully optioned Model ☰ before someone in Ohio receives a base one. Someone in Texas will receive a base Model ☰ before someone in Florida receives a fully optioned one. Everyone that orders a car will get one if they are patient.

eandmjep | 2016年5月19日

Wait 1 year from start of sales and you'll be able to get a Used Bolt for 1/2 price with less than 10,000 miles on it. Wait 2 and A used one will sell for $12,000. (if an ugly longer range commuter car is your thing 0 There will be lots to choose from as all there drivers will get rid of it for a M ☰. I do and don't want the Bolt to sell well. If it does good Tesla cant do it alone. If it don't maybe GM will go back to the drawing board and make and actual car. Plus a nice slap in the face would be hilarious.

adias.angel | 2016年5月19日

Red Sage ca us: "Everyone that orders a car will get one if they are patient."

Unfortunately with the tax incentive phase out people are not going to be patient....

topher | 2016年5月19日

@Jordon:
"Elon said the West coast will get their cars first."

That isn't what I heard him say. I heard, the first deliveries would be to the west coast. Remember they weren't expecting 400k pre-orders. If they delivery the first 100k to California, they will generate a lot of bad will.

@Joe:
"Bolt won't have a higher Average Selling Price than the M3, even though the Bolt does have a high[er] MSRP."

Of course not. Look at that huge list of juicy options you can get on a model 3. If 10% get ludicrous mode that raises the average to the Bolt all by itself.

@Adias
"Unfortunately with the tax incentive phase out people are not going to be patient...."

Hence the risky huge ramp up in production to get 250,000 cars out before it is gone.

Thank you kindly.

Red Sage ca us | 2016年5月19日

(Hmmm... I tried to write more, but it was BLOCKED by the palindrome defender.)

Haggy | 2016年5月19日

Yes, and it's important to understand that difference. Tesla isn't going to take each California showroom and hire five times the staff so they can handle delivering all the cars they can to California. Tesla can't afford not to start shipping to other regions way before they get up to speed.

carlk | 2016年5月19日

"f they delivery the first 100k to California, they will generate a lot of bad will."

So be it. Some easter coasters could cancel and move others who do not have bad will ahead a little.

bj | 2016年5月19日

@carlk - I'm with topher - delivering 100k to California first would create bad will. My completely speculative opinion is that Tesla will deliver the entire 100k or so global pre-reveal, "lined up" orders before any subsequent reservations - including RHD versions.

Tesla need to make sure the global delivery machine is working for the "true believers" first - they are likely to be slightly more forgiving than the post-reveal reservists if something isn't working as it should.

Also, Tesla have had to gear up the global machine for the 100k cars they have built to date, it makes no sense to then put that machinery on hold and deliver 100k cars to a single region for Model 3.

trung | 2016年5月21日

Bolt will be here this year. Most people won't get their hands on the model 3 for another two years. You lease the Bolt while waiting for the model 3.

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