Wow! This is a big one guys... did we just hear its getting the new glass tech the same durable sexy glass from Elon's last conf for solarcity demo?
Heat + Energy netpositive
I absolutely doubt it. Please dont get your hopes up for something like this. Current solar technology would not provide enough energy output to the car battery for it to be significant. Even if you were able to get 1kW of power from the solar on the car, you're still only getting a 1% charge every hour with the 100kWh battery. And thats saying there are ideal solar conditions. Its a good idea, but i dont know if it would be worth the innovation and the cost to implement something like that.
I think what Elon is shooting for here, is that its more efficient to generate the energy at home, and to charge your car for free at home rather than trying to implement a mobile self charging system with solar power installed on cars. Not to say this will never happen, current technology cannot implement this to make a significant impact.
@tekraid - "did we just hear its getting the new glass tech the same durable sexy glass from Elon's last conf for solarcity demo?"
No, no we didn't. What we heard was that the Model 3 will use the new Tesla glass, the new solar roof tiles also use Tesla glass. But Tesla glass by itself does not generate solar power, it is just a layer on the roof tiles. You can read the article here: ok, so the stupid filter won't let me post the link, you can google it though, the one I saw was on electrek.
As andy mentioned above, there are a variety of reasons why a solar roof may not be as great as many people think it would. There are several threads on here that discuss it in greater detail.
yes i wanted to share the link as well from article on yahoo but couldn't post. Thanks for clarifying. It def sounded too good to be true , hey i wont doubt the impossible with visionaries
One thing Tesla may be going for given their claimed expertise in glass technology is hydrophobic glass. That is glass which sheds water easily. If they are truly not planning on a rear windshield wiper, that may be the reason.
Thank you kindly.
Topher, not saying you're wrong, but thenonly cars I personally have seen with rear wipers are cars with a near-vertical rear window, which the 3s they showed did not have. Personally, not really surprising they don't have rear wipers.
There's a working link in this thread: New Type Of Glass In Model 3
Check out more cars. The Prius is probably closest to the Model 3 in shape, it has a rear wiper. And needs it.
Depends what the goal is. Prius is gasoline, and even though it gets 50mpg, putting it into perspective 50mpg is still garbage. Cars have had consistent gas mileage for a long time. They are not interested in improving gas mileage. If you have to hybridize the gasoline engine with electric to obtain 50mpg, then its time to switch the technology. Because 50mpg is still trash. But again, that depends what the individual's goal is.
Not sure what you are talking about. The goal is simply to be able to see out of the rear window when it is snowing or raining.
Check out electrek elon just tweeted about m3 getting a tesla glass solar roof option . Once again the naysayers are wrong
Actually he said there would be a foldable solar cover "like a hardtop".
Musk did confirm that T3 will "probably offer that [PV solar roof] as an option."
Other talk in the article by Musk is that it would not be "super expensive" and that passive solar roof would generate about 5kW which would be near 10% of power for the T3 which Tesla has said will have a "less than 60 kWh" battery.
Obviously you could not charge the main battery with the tiny solar output, but it could be used to heat and cool the car while parked, without using the 12V or main battery. Maybe a trickle charger.
Lots of unknowns. Is that 5 kW passive solar roof on a car or a home? Far more likely on a home. There are endless threads on solar car roofs and how they can produce about 1-2 miles of range for a full day in the sun. The only way it would provide 10% of the battery charging power is if the battery was so small that the car only has 10-20 miles of range.
Just because reporters got it wrong, doesn't make a car solar panel economically practical or something Tesla is doing. Now it is possible Tesla might put a solar cells in a car roof to cool the car by running a fan. Much more than that doesn't make sense.
@TeslaTap.com " Is that 5 kW passive solar roof on a car or a home?"
They are discussing the 5 kWh in terms of the pv glass roof on the T3. Assuming the Tesla talk of a 50 (+/-) kWh battery, 5 kWh from the solar roof in peak conditions would be substantial. Even were it minimal, just to keep the car from losing to vampire loads like battery management, it would be any EV's DNA to have a solar pv roof.
While someone (not Tesla) put out the 5 kW number, I'm 100% sure Elon's response was a joke that perhaps it could be done with a deployable shield. At 300 W per panel (about the surface area of the roof) you'd need to deploy more than 16 panels, which need to be oriented to the sun (not flat like the car roof). Now for the cost for 16 high efficiency panels without the deployable hardware, we may be talking $8K or more. With the added weight and increased drag, your car's range would also be impacted. Silly idea on so many levels.
I'm figuring more like 1500wh realistic max. it's better than nothing, but at what cost?
3 stack of playing card solar panels under the car between the wheels. Pull them out when you go camping.
@TeslaTap.com "At 300 W per panel (about the surface area of the roof) you'd need to deploy more than 16 panels,"
16 panels would generate 5kWh in one hour and is more an estimate of a system that would produce enough electricity to power the car for a year..
Also the solar glass would have about 20% more PV power per square foot than an aluminum framed roof panel which loses space at the edges and in between the many individual PV components.
As for orientation, a car parked in an open lot is going to generate a lot of power no matter which direction it is parked. All those factors, a 10 square foot solar glass roof would likely be in the 500 wH range, 2.5 kWh a day, 912 kWh a year, 16 full charges for the 50 kWh battery. All assuming sunny days so adjust for one's climate. Probably where Musks original 2% of yearly power comment came from.
As for cost, solar glass would likely be more in the $5,000 cost range plus Tesla's 24% GP, a $6,200 option.
In normal use, the battery should be more than adequate for heating or cooling the car ahead of time. If this is somehow real, it might help if you park at an airport and are worried about vampire loss. But if it's an indoor lot, so much for that idea.
I doubt "solar glass" can be used in a roof of a car. Regulations require safety glass, which is not as transmissive as glass used in solar panels. The Prius with a solar roof failed testing and can't be sold in the USA.
@TeslaTap.com " Regulations require safety glass, which is not as transmissive as glass used in solar panels."
Solar glass already comes in safety glass. it's not an issue. 2017 Prius Plug in has solar glass.
"With large solar panels mounted on the vehicle roof (solar roof), you can supply power to the driving battery and 12V battery system. When parking charges the drive battery, consumption of the drive battery is reduced, and it will contribute to the improvement of the EV mileage and fuel consumption in motion (when the sun is out).
In case of a power outage at a charging station, if there is no parking or an outage, (the solar roof) enables charging of the drive battery if there is sunlight. “
Here is an idea for 3rd party. Flexible solar panel on car cover for all EV cars. Protect the cars, get some charging. Should be much cheaper than glass roof and more easily upgradeable.
You heard nothing. M3 will get the same durable glass. No solar cells involved. Glass only.
EaglesPDX, do you even know what safety glass is, more to the point, what physically makes it "safety glass".
The solar glass tiles that Tesla has announced are not the same, nor are any other solar panels .
@jordnanrichard "The solar glass tiles that Tesla has announced are not the same, nor are any other solar panels"
"Photovoltaic Laminated Safety Glass"
LOL 16 panels will produce UP TO 5kWh if you've propped up your car facing directly at the sun around noon for an hour. A panel on top of a car parked in the middle of a parking lot for the day (I apologize for all those prepositional phrases) MIGHT get you one kWh if you live in Hawaii or the Florida Keys. Since the troll has been arguing for raised suspension to drive through snow, one panel might get you 300-500 Wh. Awesome...
@JayInJapan " panel on top of a car parked in the middle of a parking lot for the day (I apologize for all those prepositional phrases) MIGHT get you one kWh if you live in Hawaii or the Florida Keys"
Musk (and the previous posted facts and tech) disagrees with you and now that he is in the solar glass business has promised a glass PV roof on the T3.
@EaglesPDX - "now that he is in the solar glass business has promised a glass PV roof on the T3."
Assuming he wasn't joking in the first place, he did strongly suggest that there will be that option, but it wasn't a promise. I would hope he's learned his lesson about that sort of thing :)
I have a funny picture in my head.
Hundreds of Level 5 AP2-cars driving itself to charge during sunset at Hawaii beach...
It would be even funnier if the cars gradually re-angled themselves to better catch the sun using the air suspension.
"Hundreds of Level 5 AP2-cars driving itself to charge during sunset at Hawaii beach..."
If my Tesla drives itself to Hawaii to watch the sunset, we are going to have a *talk*...
@dsvick "..he [Musk] did strongly suggest that there will be that option"
Yes...which made those claiming the solar PV glass roof "impossible" look foolish. A fun moment in Tesla Forum history.
I don't see Musk "promising" any of modifications on the T3 (trailer package, lift back, solar glass) he just says the T3 will have them. I sure hope he's got a Twitter assistant who records all this for him.
I don't think anyone said it was "impossible". They were saying it was not useful, and it still isn't. But there are so many people clamoring for it anyway, that they might as well offer it.
@Rocky_H " don't think anyone said it was "impossible". "
They did among other things like "never". Elon totally pulled the rug out from under them.
"But there are so many people clamoring for it anyway, that they might as well offer it."
Ah the poor deluded clamorers, can't imagine why people buying high end EV to support the mission of "building a sustainable transportation future" would clamor for a solar PV glass roof that will provide 2-4% of the car's yearly power requirements.
Is TrumpEagles still here, hasn't he found a Dolt forum yet?
Consider Elon being asked about solar roofs for cars over and over.
I suspect he just tells the dolts, Yeah that will likely be an option.
saving the argument from the dolt that his idea was stupid!
@Badbot "Consider Elon being asked about solar roofs for cars over and over. I suspect he just tells the dolts, Yeah that will likely be an option."
Your standards would mean all Musk's various Tweets are lies
Kind of like all of TrumpEagles posts.
"Your standards would mean all Musk's various Tweets are lies"
So you took one non-committal statement ("We'll probably offer that as an option") and turned it into a promise ("Musk (and the previous posted facts and tech) disagrees with you and now that he is in the solar glass business has promised a glass PV roof on the T3."), and if this promise you've manufactured isn't fulfilled, you're willing to impeach the reputation of Elon Musk by calling all of his tweets lies?
Do you ever wonder why you're universally despised here? This reprehensible rhetorical style is incompatible with a forum that "provides an online meeting space for owners and enthusiasts to exchange ideas that are entertaining, helpful and useful. We encourage you to participate and only ask that you be respectful of others."
You've been neither entertaining, helpful or useful. You've never been respectful of others. Perhaps this is not the online meeting space for you.
@Frank"So you took one non-committal statement"
So you look on Musk's commitments to features as non-committal? That may be true, I don't know what Musk's track record is on following through on promises. In the case of the T3, towing, lift back, solar glass
I can find no commitment from Elon Musk for a PV roof on the Model 3.
Perhaps I'm being harsh and English is not your native language. In that case, the word "probably" has synonyms that include "as likely as not" and "chances are". As native english speakers, we don't take those as promises or commitments.
For me personally, I believe EM is an honorable man who will make superhuman efforts to honor any commitment he makes. I don't believe that he will make superhuman efforts to honor commitments that I or someone else impute to him.
@Frank99 " I can find no commitment from Elon Musk for a PV roof on the Model 3.
Chuckle...and that on a thread about Musk saying Tesla will offer solar glass on the T3 with a pic of Musk's Twitter statement to that effect. The funniest part is that Musk's tweet was in response to a solar glass skeptic and Musk corrected him.
PV glass on a glass roofed EV is such a perfect fit.
@TrumpEagles - Chuckle...You'll have to forgive Frank99. Like your hero Trump you rarely say anything that makes sense, so hard to tell when you're correct.
Please, I am apparently simply an ignorant member of the Tesla cult. Can you quote the commitment that Elon made for a PV roof on the Model 3, a commitment that doesn't include the word "probably"?
When you see it as an option on the configuration page, it's a commitment.
And please cite a "commitment" to a hatchback. Pffff
Keep in mind Elon often makes funny tweets - not intended for the humor impaired or as some kind of commitment. In response to a question on a 5kW vehicle solar roof, Elon's answer was "...unless we do a deployable solar shield like a retractable hard top".
Getting those 16 panels to deploy like the space station would be interesting, but not very practical.
For those that want this crazy solar shield, you're free to modify your car, patent the idea and sell it to all the car companies. After you go bankrupt, please come back here and let us know about all your success.
@TeslaTap.com "Keep in mind Elon often makes funny tweets."
Keep in mind this wasn't one of them. In fact Musk's comment was in reply to one of the Luddites pleading against the "hot sexy new glass tech".
There's a simply challenge here. Step up to it.
Can you quote the commitment that Elon made for a PV roof on the Model 3, a commitment that doesn't include the word "probably"?
If not, there isn't one.