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Poll: 90D or 100D and why?

Poll: 90D or 100D and why?

Would you go with the 90D and free supercharging or the 100D and pay for charging? And please explain your reasoning?

I'm still deciding and very much on the fence about it.

I would take the supercharging over the range, but I'm more concerned about better tech.

Does anyone know if the battery tech is better in the 100D? Enhanced cooling system, different cells, possibility for ultra fast super charging in the future?

campusden | 2017年1月21日

As far as I know, the technology is the same. I have a 2016 model X 90D with AP 2.0 hardware, so Mid November 2016 build. Now with my car I could charge at 96 KW or 295 miles/hr at a supercharger until the battery got to 70% or so. I recently had a 2014 Model S P85D loaner. At the same supercharger, I could only charge at 58KW or 185 miles/hr until about 750% charge. The actual range of a 2014 P85D model S and a 2016 model X 90D are very close within 3 miles of each other. I did notice that my car's cooling system came on during the supercharging but the 2014 model S didn't. Now I believe it was about 10 degrees F warmer ( 83 vice 74) outside when I was charging with my model X.
The real thing for you is how much travel do you plan to do? Is the extra range going to matter? I have only taken 1 journey that required 2 supercharger stops on the way. I don't know if I could have made it to the destination hotel with a Tesla normal charger without the second stop but with a 100 level battery I could have made it.

bondoc1 | 2017年1月21日

I just put in order for 90D on 15th Jan. and have a window of one week (I.e. Jan 22nd) to update the order. Here is the strange issue. I am allowed to upgrade to P100D ( more expensive) model ) and keep free supercharging but not allowed to upgrade to 100D. Tesla is forcing me to put in a new order but I will loose free supercharging. Is this not unfair business practice of Tesla? I am so disappointed and wonder if there is a recourse. I am a loyal Tesla customer, current owner of a Model S, have two Model 3 and power walls on reservations. Would love to upgrade to 100D within my one week window and keep free supercharging. Any advice regarding any legal recourse?

vperl | 2017年1月21日

Taking legal advice from this or any forum is.....

Your choice

bondoc1 | 2017年1月21日

Thank you vperi. Well, what I mean is I don't know whether I have a valid point and whom should I contact in Tesla to present my case?

Silver2K | 2017年1月21日

bondoc1 | January 21, 2017
I just put in order for 90D on 15th Jan. and have a window of one week (I.e. Jan 22nd) to update the order. Here is the strange issue. I am allowed to upgrade to P100D ( more expensive) model ) and keep free supercharging but not allowed to upgrade to 100D. Tesla is forcing me to put in a new order but I will loose free supercharging. Is this not unfair business practice of Tesla? I am so disappointed and wonder if there is a recourse. I am a loyal Tesla customer, current owner of a Model S, have two Model 3 and power walls on reservations. Would love to upgrade to 100D within my one week window and keep free supercharging. Any advice regarding any legal recourse?
-----------------------------------------------------

it's a policy, own the company and you can change the policy.

it's like saying "Yes I know I was doing 120 mph Judge, but it was 2 am and no one was on the street"

law is law, policy is policy.

inconel | 2017年1月21日

The 100kw battery has newer cooling technology but few outside of Tesla know if it will be able to take higher charge than the current 120kwh limit when V3 comes. It might not be able to (only newer 2170 battery cells can) or maybe it can and 90kw can't or maybe both can... As for charging speed with the current supercharger I remember seeing somewhere that the 100kw battery can sustain higher charge even longer than the 90kw but it is probably not that important since the 90kw is already quite good if it can charge at 96kwh up to 70% SOC.

As for Tesla logic for people with an outstanding order who want to upgrade I don't think we really have a legal recourse. Tesla logic in this particular instance seems to be: ability to change options in the order (before the vehicle is in production) by selecting among the options that were available at the time of the order. Of course Tesla can be nice and allow the change to 100D while keeping the original order with free SC but I don't see why they legally have to.

Back to OP question you are in a tough dilemma and will have to decide for yourself if free SC is important enough for you against 38 miles more range plus the unknown potential for V3. If this is really killing you as it seems to be by the number of threads where you ask this question then you can also get the best of both worlds by upgrading to the P100D. Financially it would not make sense but it buys you peace of mind.

jRoGville | 2017年1月21日

i'm not advocating for or against, just explaining it. The difference between changing to the 100D and the P100D with your existing order is that the P100D was being offered at the time you placed your order. The P100D was not. You're talking about a new product, so they say you need a new order, which because now it's after Jan 15, does not qualify for free supercharging. Obviously they did this on purpose. I think, as has been mentioned elsewhere, that they are doing it with the intent of creating an incentive to sell the remaining stock of 90D batteries before discontinuing. If they had planned to keep selling the 90D, they would have placed a bigger price difference between the two.

MasterT | 2017年1月21日

Since you're not mentioning ventilated seats, then the choice is super easy:
• if you are in a taxi business, Uber, Lyft, employ your vehicle for deliveries, or will not have charging infrastructure at home - stay with unlimited supercharging and 90D
• Otherwise, get 100D

While speculative, I think it's reasonable to assume that 100D uses new patented tech discussed here: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/new-pack-architecture-that-is-li...

To make your decision easier, calculate the value of "Free Supercharging" - 1,000 miles cost about $80 - do the math for you, how many miles do you plan of driving with charging at supercharging.

MasterT | 2017年1月21日

I also think that it is very suspicious that 90D and 100D performance numbers are exactly the same - 100D performance might be software limited which might or might not be offer as an upgrade option later

jRoGville | 2017年1月21日

I'm no expert on this, but isn't the major factor for performance how fast you can draw power from the battery and how much power the motors can take in and how fast they can translate it into motion? And perhaps the architecture of making that faster draw, or the quicker motors are not as efficient, therefor reducing the total range for the battery. I don't think the actual capacity of the battery would have anything to do with the performance characteristics of the car.

inconel | 2017年1月21日

yes it is likely with respect to performance that the motors in the 90D and 100D are the limiting factors not the battery

MasterT | 2017年1月21日

Good points

burdogg | 2017年1月21日

I wonder if we are getting to worried that these new 100D batteries are the holy grail :) Yes, battery tech is coming along, but I would be surprised if the difference between the 90D and 100D was that significant. I am no where near an expert in this, but if you are looking long term lasting - they will probably be close to the same there. Faster charging? Maybe a little, but I don't think the new tech is there yet. If the op is just worried about the tech difference in the battery, the I would stick with the 90D and free supercharging. To me the only reason to upgrade is if you really need the extra miles. You have to decide the trade off - is the miles needed enough to give up free supercharging. That to me is the question, not so much the battery tech - at least not at this point. I think battery tech is still a little down the road to be such a difference between what the 90D is now.

Just my two cents to maybe help the op out. The truth is, no one really knows on the battery tech - but I would bet, if there was something major with it, Tesla would be touting it. Since there really is no word, I would doubt it is that far superior - some, but not enough if you plan to use superchargers a lot.

tommyalexandersb | 2017年1月21日

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

Even though I'll be really disappointed if I miss supercharging V3, I'm leaning towards sticking with the 90D because free charging is what made me place the order when I did. Also, I don't travel long distances that often, but I do plan to super charge frequently since I won't have access to a 14-50, and I plan to send my car out to make money for me on the tesla network.

lilbean | 2017年1月21日

Lovely

jRoGville | 2017年1月21日

burdogg, Tesla did tout the battery when it first came out back in August. This isn't a new product, just a new application. But I agree we don't know about the tech. Beyond the value of supercharging, which is an individual judgement, there's the quantifiable differences between the 90D and 100D. Tesla is asking you to pay $10k to get an additional 20 miles of range for the 90D, but an additional $3k for an additional 38 miles with the 100D. I know that I've said this to you elsewhere, but in case there's a new audience here, other than the supercharger question, people need to decide whether the range of the 75D is sufficient for them. Otherwise, I don't see the 90D as a reasonable value proposition versus the 100D.

jRoGville | 2017年1月21日

•• tommyalexandersb | January 21, 2017
Thanks for the feedback everyone!
Even though I'll be really disappointed if I miss supercharging V3, I'm leaning towards sticking with the 90D because free charging is what made me place the order when I did. Also, I don't travel long distances that often, but I do plan to super charge frequently since I won't have access to a 14-50, and I plan to send my car out to make money for me on the tesla network. ••

If you don't have access to a decent charging rate at home and a supercharger is convenient to you, I absolutely agree that trumps everything else and you need to maintain your free supercharger availability.

burdogg | 2017年1月21日

jRoGville - I agree - I think the range is the key here - if you were going to get a 75D and the range is sufficient, then it is pointless to be upgrading to the 100D. While yes, the P100D battery was touted as being different, that was their explanation of how they were able to get to the 100 - the current way the battery was done for the 90, they couldn't get any more out of it. So the redesign, etc... made the battery able to get 100. I don't know that it means the 100 battery will last longer or be able to do things that the 90 can't :)

If you have a 90D and did it not for supercharging, but wanted the max range, then it makes sense to get the 100D. If you really need supercharging (like the op) then it makes sense to stick with 90D. The hard call is those that are not sure on the supercharging needs - and this is where the best decision is - do you really need more range? The pluses to more range - you may be able to cut out a supercharger stop on a long distance trip. When you do supercharge - it will be a little faster as getting to 70% of the batter will be the same time for both, but the 100D will get more miles in that 70% and hence maybe be able to leave the supercharger sooner to make it to the next one :)

Decisions, decisions. I don't envy any of you in this boat - kind of glad I already have my X and don't have to try and weigh it all out (although I feel like I am vicariously for all of you :)

PedanticOne | 2017年1月21日

All I know is I was pretty happy with my choice before and re-ordering will only postpone things and I am already chomping at the bit. And I still want the ventilated seats.

burdogg | 2017年1月21日

Pedantic - are you sure you don't want to re-order - I hear Red was the color, and that just requires a re-order :)

Ok, sorry to hijack, back to the topic at hand :)

PedanticOne | 2017年1月21日

Ha. Talk to the hand. :-)

I would say though that if I had only recently ordered, I might be more likely to change my order. And I just drove to the showroom to check out the white seats. For no reason. Shut up. I said no reason. Just looking. They sure are... white. I like them from an artsy POV but am still unsure if I'd want to switch to them. But I won't. Will I?

I should really just stop looking at the forums, bury my head in the sand, and let things transpire. It's the only way to stay sane.

burdogg | 2017年1月21日

That is the truth PedanticOne - trying to stay sane while waiting I think is a lost cause :) I won't comment on any of your other info :)

tommyalexandersb | 2017年1月21日

Good pints burdogg, I will throw this out there though. I fell in love with tesla because of the feeling of accelerating smoothly with instant torque and the 75D just didn't cut it for me. The main reason I went with the 90D is because I wanted to be superstoked on the performance if I'm spending that much on a car.

burdogg | 2017年1月21日

@tommyalexandersb - you make a good point - if it was just miles, but yes, for some the acceleration is what they want. In your case, I would really just stick with the 90D to get the free unlimited supercharging. The 100D does nothing with acceleration, just adds miles. In your case, it sounds like you need the supercharging over the miles :) Stick with the 90D and I bet you will be happier than losing supercharging (just for your tailored case from what you have shared :)

Model_D | 2017年1月21日

Free supercharging is a gimmick. Electricity is one of the lowest costs of owning a Model X in my opinion. It comes after depreciation, insurance, maintenance and tires. Get what you want.

burdogg | 2017年1月21日

Dwepilot - while I agree, you still have to pay like in tommyalexandersb case - every time - he doesn't have home charging. So, money is money and if there is no need for the more miles, than that is a waste and does over time cost them (small, but a cost nonetheless for extra non needed miles :)

MB2 | 2017年1月21日

For me, the extra 38 miles makes a big difference. It allows me to skip a supercharger on a particular longer route and avoid them altogether on several others. I want as few compromises as possible with this car. Long distance travel is still a compromise no matter what people try to say. Getting the maximum range possible negates one of the very few disadvantages about owning a Tesla. Free unlimited supercharging is nice, but decreased need to supercharge and not having to supercharge at all is better in my opinion.

MB2 | 2017年1月21日

Just made the change official. I feel pretty good about the decision. Longer wait for my car though :(

burdogg | 2017年1月21日

Woo hoo MB2 - now you don't have to fret over it :) or, then again, now you get to wait longer and that is not fun by any means. :)

Saxman | 2017年1月21日

MB2
I agree with you about long distance travel being a compromise. I am trying to endoctrinate my wife to a new paradigm in road traveling. She will soon be retired and hopefully shed the Corporate Mentality she had in her traveling role with her company.

I believe traveling the Supercharging network requires a much different mindset than we've been used to. While we want as much Range and as few Supercharging stops, we must allow much more travel time...and be at peace with that,

I've put on over 3000 long distance trip miles in literally the 30 days I took delivery on my 75D. I'm certainly no expert yet, but I think I'm getting the hang of it. And all those miles were WITHOUT ANY driver's assistance on my AP2 MX...and I still loved driving it

jRoGville | 2017年1月21日

I used to average 30,000 miles a year back in my heyday design apartments all over Florida, which is a loooooong state. Glad those days are behind me.

MB2. I've been contemplating a change to the 100D. What did they tell you about delivery time?

RonPrx | 2017年1月21日

Going to change to the 100D. Longer range over SC. Will charge at home in almost all cases and 1,000 miles or so free is fine. Pay as you go from there. Still far less cost than gas when traveling. Must be a reason why they are going to D.C. The perforated seats. So didn't care about them to start but don't want something that they are eliminating. Not sure if 100 is new battery design ... but if it is, even better. May push out my order a month or so but hav waited since I have first heard of Tesla .... what's another month. With each
Assign car I believe the fit and finish improves.

PedanticOne | 2017年1月21日

@MB2 what date do you see for delivery now, if it's been updated yet...?

PedanticOne | 2017年1月21日

I know when I asked my DS earlier today, he said "The currently delivery estimate for 100D Model X & Model S is late March" but we all know how Tesla time works...

RonPrx | 2017年1月21日

My DS didn't expect delivery date to change with upgrade to 100D.

MB2 | 2017年1月21日

I was originally scheduled for late a March delivery. I ordered my 90D on December 19 and it conformed on December 26. When I changed to the 100D today I was given a new April-ish delivery. He literally said April-ish. Truth be told, he was very honest and forthright in that Tesla really doesn't seem to know when production is going to start on these 100D cars. I'm not too worried. I've been waiting four years to get this car. Four more months doesn't seem like too high a price to pay get into a car with just about everything I could have wanted in my Tesla. Plus, it's four (or more) months to save more money. He told me that one other person upgraded yesterday, but three others who inquired decided to stick with their 90D's due to being too close to their scheduled production date. Evidently they would have had to forfeit their $2500 deposit and start over again.

Dofpic | 2017年1月21日

One reason I changed to the 100D is I used evtripplanner to calculate charging times from my twice a year trip back in forth from Montana to Ohio. It is 33 hrs of driving 2150 miles and 12+ hours of charging in my 70D. The 90D is 9+ hours of charging and the 100D is a little over 6 hours of charging. The extra range and less time charging was the difference maker.

burdogg | 2017年1月21日

You must have been using Model S numbers, as there is no way to get info on Model X yet on the EV trip planner.

burdogg | 2017年1月21日

But, yes, in a extra long trip like that, you will find with a 100D, you can skip a charger here and there, and charge to more miles in same amount of time as another battery. So that is one point trying to make here - if you make long (extra long) distance trip, more miles does come in handy.

hundredmountains | 2017年1月21日

@MB2, did you need to pay $500 change fee to get 100D from 90D?

nrelia | 2017年1月22日

Have decided to stick with 90D and unlimited Supercharging. It was a tough call and thought loooong and hard about it. Based on my personal situation was able to compile a list of following reasons or rather a "justification" for my decision.
1. Financially 90D was already a stretch for a car purchase not that I couldn't afford it. Another 3K for 100D and about 1.5-2K supercharging cost over the life of car. Pre tax amount would be about 7K in earnings.
2. Drive a Toyota Corolla for last 8 yrs that will be replaced by Model X . If not for Model X would have upgraded to Acura MDX. I currently drive 25K/yr for my job (100-120 miles per day) so will have sizeable gas savings with electric ownership. Recent extended 4 day test drive in a P90D around Christmas time resulted in no range anxiety whatsoever so 90D would easily meet daily needs.
3. Forums are full of stories of how one tends to drive more after tesla ownership. One personal reason for this purchase was that I intend to make several road trips with kids (4 and 6 yr ) +/- grandparents. Live in South NJ and just for this year have trips planned to Pittsburgh , Toronto and Memphis already. Intend to drive coast to coast at some point in recent future if wife is up to it. Also exploring the option of pick up at factory in Fremont and drive down to east coast. May be Disney/Orlando next year. To summarize hope to easily exceed 400 kWH yearly limit year after year with Model X ownership.
4. I personally have a feeling that 90 D with AP2.0 and unlimited SC will hold value if my overall electric experience with tesla goes south and I have to sell . I could be very wrong but something tells me there is some rationale in this assumption.

Appreciate all the forum members input

Dofpic | 2017年1月22日

For me to upgrade for a MS90 ordered in late December. It cost me $4300 total. 3k upgrade plus 500 change fee and now the premium interior package is $800 more than it used to me. Did not like that but thought 3k for the 100d upgrade was a great value so i bit bullet and I am psyched!

info | 2017年1月22日

I've read everyone's opinions about the justification of either keeping their MX90D or jumping ship to the 100D. Must say some are compelling. However, I have decided under the current Tesla policy, I will keep my X90D . Production has not started yet, so if Tesla changes their minds and allows us to keep the free super charging I will pull the trigger and go for the 100D. Otherwise, I remain.

MB2 | 2017年1月22日

The $500 change fee was non-negotiable. Have your credit card handy when you call.

PedanticOne | 2017年1月22日

For me, I decided to stick with the 90D because (I said some of this already, but here's my latest list):

- I was happy with my choice before, why change now?
- I would like the ventilated seats, both from a functionality as well as aesthetic view
- I want my car sooner rather than later, and as we know Tesla time is quite fluid. They are already talking of possibly pushing my car back, and I keep seeing Model Xs out there and each time I cry a little. Let's face it, a grown man crying in a lifted Jeep Wrangler is not a pretty sight. "Daddy, why are you crying?" "Just have something in my eye, son"

Note that in the end, free supercharging doesn't really sway me. It's more about the above. Especially the crying.

burdogg | 2017年1月22日

Red, I would be crying too. :)

Triggerplz | 2017年1月22日

There's a lot of people on the fence about getting the 90D or 100D hopefully it will work out for all . Good Luck https://imgur.com/a/BluCs

burdogg | 2017年1月22日

Ha, yeah being on the fence is not a good thing

Triggerplz | 2017年1月22日

lol

tommyalexandersb | 2017年1月22日

I feel much more relaxed after deciding to stick with the 90D. I went into the tesla showroom, asked a bunch of questions about the battery tech, and decided on the spot to stick with the 90. (Insert sigh of relief here)

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