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Bait and switch?

Bait and switch?

I ordered a custom Model X on Sep 15 2017. Before placing the order the website indicated a delivery of November. Once the order was placed my account showed a delivery date of late Nov-early Dec although the website still continued to indicate a delivery date of November for new orders. Contacted my advisor who suggested I need not worry as the delivery would most likely be in Nov.

Was contacted by a sales exec two days before the end of the Sep quarter offering me an inventory vehicle that was similar to the one I had ordered except for the paint. He seemed to suggest that I was getting it at a lower price but would have to sign the papers within two days, start paying for the lease and turn in my trade-in vehicle and wait for two to three weeks for delivery. When asked how I was supposed to commute after I turn in my trade-in, he offered to check if I could have a loaner for the period. When I asked for the deal in writing I received a proposal for a vehicle that was exactly the price I would pay if I custom ordered it and I would be given a ICE rental from Enterprise until the car was delivered. Naturally I declined the offer as the car was not exactly what I ordered and did not want to pay for a car that I would not have a chance to checkout for two to three weeks, give up my current car and drive a lousy rental. Obviously Tesla was trying to pump up their quarterly delivery numbers while not giving me any advantage in return.

Now, two days later my account now shows that the delivery of the car I ordered is pushed to late Dec-early January 2018 while the website shows a delivery date of Dec 2017 for new custom orders. Makes one wonder if Tesla is playing the "bait and switch" games to force customers into buying cars that are unsold and they may have on inventory.

I'm curious to know if anyone else faced this situation and what happened in their case. I had read one other post with a similar story with no conclusion.

TeslaTap.com | 2017年10月3日

I don't see any bait and switch. You were offered an alternative which you declined and kept your custom order (I would have done the same). A bait and switch is when you buy one thing and something (usually of lesser value) is delivered.

Tesla delivery times shift all the time, and having it shift out a month is not uncommon. There are a lot of variables, especially if you are far from the Tesla factory where shipping is somewhat outside Tesla's control.

gvsuresh | 2017年10月3日

"Tesla delivery times shift all the time, and having it shift out a month is not uncommon. There are a lot of variables, especially if you are far from the Tesla factory where shipping is somewhat outside Tesla's control."

Thanks for the reply but to me it looks like a "Bait and switch" in terms of the delivery schedule when what is advertised is different from what it looks like once the order is placed and it keeps changing with no explanation offered. One would expect that by the time the VIN is in the 70xxx range they would have ironed out these issues or at least have their website reflect the right time frame before and immediately after order placement.

gvsuresh | 2017年10月3日

"Tesla delivery times shift all the time, and having it shift out a month is not uncommon. There are a lot of variables, especially if you are far from the Tesla factory where shipping is somewhat outside Tesla's control."

Thanks for the reply but to me it looks like a "Bait and switch" in terms of the delivery schedule when what is advertised is different from what it looks like once the order is placed and it keeps changing with no explanation offered. One would expect that by the time the VIN is in the 70xxx range they would have ironed out these issues or at least have their website reflect the right time frame before and immediately after order placement.

burdogg | 2017年10月3日

No the delivery date is an ESTIMATE to give you an idea of when it MAY be ready. Have you ever custom ordered a car before???

My 2012 Ford Expedition took 4 months to GET!!! I was on them and they had nothing but excuses. When we finally got it, it had 180+ miles on it! Wait, we bought this thing custom ordered, how did it end up with 180 miles on it.

Anyway, I digress to another vehicle issue, but the fact is, these dates are switching - what you are claiming is that Tesla is secretly keeping a score card on those that choose to decline an offer for a vehicle earlier, and punishing them by making them wait longer - WAIT WHAT???

Seriously?

By the way, in case you didn't know this, but Tesla's policy is that NO NEW BUILD vehicle gets a DISCOUNT. That is firm. Everyone pays the same price - there is no haggling, no discount, no benefits. They just know that people want their vehicle now, so they were offering you an option to get it earlier. You said no, so no big deal. But the date you see is always an estimate and no, they are not playing games of, you are being watched and belong on the naughty list since you didn't do what we wanted!

Last - the estimate is just that because they do things in batches. When I ordered, mine got pushed back because all of a sudden, they finally decided to start making the 5 seater version, and there were many that had been waiting for that for almost a year. So while they pushed those ones all through, I got pushed back later on my delivery. No, no conspiracy. Maybe when you really understand how complex this whole process is, you would realize that no, they can't give you a very well nailed down time.

Back to my Ford example - this is FORD - a company that has built HOW many expeditions??? And they couldn't even give me a rough estimate of when it would be ready.

Oh well, you can believe what you want, I have a feeling nothing I or anyone else says against what you are will get you to change your mind.

baldchap+tesla | 2017年10月4日

"By the way, in case you didn't know this, but Tesla's policy is that NO NEW BUILD vehicle gets a DISCOUNT. That is firm. Everyone pays the same price - there is no haggling, no discount, no benefits"

You definitely get a discount for an inventory car. We got a brand new, inventory model X P100DL at over £20k off the exact same spec for a custom build, except it had an additional five grand worth of wheels on it vs the car we specced. So in real terms, that's a £25k discount.

baldchap+tesla | 2017年10月4日

To clarify, it hadn't even got to the UK - it was still en route when we got that discount...

gvsuresh | 2017年10月4日

“No the delivery date is an ESTIMATE to give you an idea of when it MAY be ready. Have you ever custom ordered a car before???”

Please pardon my ignorance. That is precisely why an ignoramus like me would come to a forum such as this to be lectured into silence by the wise ones. Note to self: Giving unreliable and constantly changing estimates is the industry norm and dare not expect any different from Tesla which is trying to redefine the auto-industry!

“Anyway, I digress to another vehicle issue, but the fact is, these dates are switching - what you are claiming is that Tesla is secretly keeping a score card on those that choose to decline an offer for a vehicle earlier, and punishing them by making them wait longer - WAIT WHAT???
Seriously?”

I’m not claiming anything. I was just wondering if that is the case based on my experience so far and Tesla has done nothing to prove otherwise.

“By the way, in case you didn't know this, but Tesla's policy is that NO NEW BUILD vehicle gets a DISCOUNT. That is firm. Everyone pays the same price - there is no haggling, no discount, no benefits. They just know that people want their vehicle now, so they were offering you an option to get it earlier. You said no, so no big deal. But the date you see is always an estimate and no, they are not playing games of, you are being watched and belong on the naughty list since you didn't do what we wanted!”

Glad to know. I’m so relieved that I was only delusional and cooking up conspiracy theories. Perhaps I was high and misunderstood when the guy on the phone from Freemont was pitching the inventory vehicle as if I was getting a $1000 discount when in reality a part of that was because the paint on the inventory vehicle cost $500 less that the white paint on my custom order and partly because the inventory vehicle had a tow hitch which I did not need and was not on my custom order. Or when he suggested I would get special delivery to my home, which according to him normally costs about $2000, for free when in reality the local Tesla service center is just a mile from my home and it would cost them nothing more to than usual.

How dare I expect that the website would indicate the same expected time-frame immediately before and after an order is placed? That stuff is probably more complicated than landing a rocket on a barge or colonizing Mars!

“Oh well, you can believe what you want, I have a feeling nothing I or anyone else says against what you are will get you to change your mind.”

No more than anyone would have a chance of people who believe that “Tesla can do no wrong” that there are no areas that can be improved upon! I just need to understand that once my credit card is charged, I have given up all rights to question delivery schedules or anything else for that matter

burdogg | 2017年10月4日

baldchap - how many miles were on it? There have been some discounts but a lot of times done without corporate knowledge. Good example is this thread recently:
https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/who-escalate-regarding-sales-discr...

When you read through it all - you will see that corporate stepped in and said no.

And then there was this just last year from Elon himself:
http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/30/technology/tesla-elon-musk-discount/inde...

Have there been discounts - yes, usually on an inventory model that is used for test drives etc...

Have some managed to get a deal otherwise - yes, but as the article shows, that is not the way Tesla works and brings down the wrath of corporate, and Elon himself. :)

burdogg | 2017年10月4日

Hey, I am not saying Tesla is perfect - but you come claiming bait and switch - you started firing first :)

You shot down the first person that gave you an answer.

You can question all you want, but my response was to let you know why your stance was off. But again, you don't care to listen, but want others to just agree with you.

I gave you many reasons why the date may change. They can not give you a hard fast date. There are too many variables and for you to want to say bait and switch, or that they are punishing you is just funny, hence why the response.

But oh well, again you know better about how to give exact timing on delivering vehicles, so maybe you should give Tesla a clue of your knowledge so they can do that.

Landing rockets is apples to oranges - love when people use that as an example for everything. Heck if they can land rockets, they should be able to make a car that can go over 400 miles on a single charge!

burdogg | 2017年10月4日

And yes, Tesla sales people make tons of mistakes. They say things they shouldn't. They offer discounts that then have to be rediscussed (see thread I linked above). Elon makes statements that he has to back away from. I could go on - I have been around. I don't think Tesla is perfect. I do think they need better communication. But I don't agree that they maliciously do things like you are saying. So because I choose to fight false news, does not mean Tesla can't make mistakes!

gvsuresh | 2017年10月4日

Maybe if you read my original post a bit more carefully you would see I'm not asking anyone to agree or disagree with me. I was just asking if anyone else had a similar experience. No need to reply if you did not.

burdogg | 2017年10月4日

Yeah, but again, when you make statements like "Makes one wonder if Tesla is playing the "bait and switch" games to force customers into buying cars that are unsold and they may have on inventory." you are going to get many that are going to call you out on that regardless of answering your question.

burdogg | 2017年10月4日

There are other ways to ask if others have had similar experiences without all the malice laced comments.

Example:

(Simplified)

I ordered my Model X. Delivery date estimate was Nov, but after placing order it said Late Nov-Dec.

Got a call from Fremont that they had a car that was very similar to mine and I could have it by End of Sept, but would have to decide in two days. There were some savings if I did so, and they even arranged for me to have a Rental, as I would have to trade in my car before the X was ready (kind of nice that they would give me a rental in the meantime). In the end, I declined the offer as it was not exactly what I wanted. Two days later, my delivery date changed to Dec-Jan.

Has anyone ever experienced something similar?

See - that is straight up facts and asking for assistance. The other is laced with distaste and personal opinions about the company. Not really seeking anything, but more trying to portray a bad light on something that does not exist. Heck, they were even going to give you a Rental and yet you made it out as a bad thing?

Last, to answer your question on date of order showing one thing and yours being later (ie website shows Dec, but your already placed order says Dec-Jan) it can have to do with configuration. There was a time that they had Grey Leather seats. There was a backorder on that particular seat, so even though the website said X, those that ordered the Grey Leather seats, actually got a much later date. So who knows what it is that may be holding or pushing yours back, but again to assume or think that Tesla is out to get you is laughable.

TeslaTap.com | 2017年10月4日

There are a of reasons an order estimate may shift.

If your Tesla is totaled, if asked, Tesla has in some cases moved that order to the head of the production line to minimize how long that customer is without a Tesla. Should this happen, normally the few occurrences would not affect other orders.

I wonder if all the cars lost in Florida and Texas may have caused a lot more car replacements that bumped custom orders out a few weeks.

Rocky_H | 2017年10月4日

@burdogg, Yes, it's funny when someone makes such a strong accusation of malicious, fraudulent behavior and then tries to play innocent, pretending they didn't.
And no, this is nothing like a bait and switch.

These two types of things are not unusual or in any way wrong or unethical. They do frequently offer similar inventory cars in case people don't want to wait and are OK with something slightly different. You don't have to take that deal. And delivery estimates are estimates, and they shift. This isn't even confined to the car industry. I've had delivery estimates get delayed on all kinds of things.

gvsuresh | 2017年10月4日

Valid point TeslaTap.com Perhaps it would have been more palatable if I had received an email explaining the delay rather than playing the guessing game as to what the reason could be.

jlstanley | 2017年10月4日

Ordered my Tesla X in Aug 2017...first estimate for delivery was late Oct/early Nov. Received my X end of Sept. I couldn't be happier!

gvsuresh | 2017年10月4日

Congrats jlstanley. Hopefully I will have a similar story to share.

tes-s | 2017年10月4日

No bait and switch. Just the usual push to sell as many cars as they can before the end of the quarter.

Been doing this for years. My guess is your car will be delivered this quarter, if past performance is any indication.

TumblerDIM | 2017年10月4日

I alos had the delivery date pushed a few months. When i confirmed my order in april, the delivery date was supposed to be early july then pretty soon it became late july and i finally got it in late september.
I live in France so i know the international deliveries are different but still Tesla people explained to me when i asked them that it's normal to see the estimated date moving.
Honestly, it didn't seem so long when you think about it. 5 months including summer to deliver a car from the US to France is pretty good.
As for the inventory, in France there's always a discount price. It ranges between 5% and 15% depending on the milage.
Hope this can help restoring your confidence in Tesla cause they never did anything other than proving me we can trust them...

gvsuresh | 2017年10月4日

tes-s & TumblerDIM thanks for the encouraging and concrete info.

scabello800 | 2017年10月4日

It sounds like bait 'n switch to me. You were baited into buying the car thinking you would have it in Nov at the latest and now they are saying January??
And these morons that refer to these dates as "estimate" dont really know what a definition of "estimate" is if they think Giving an estimate of 2 months and then taking 4 months is not proper.. especially for something like this - where you get in line for a build and by now Tesla should be able to properly predict build times.

But why did they offer you a car early like that (with a 2-3 week rental)? I dont think it was to boost quarterly numbers because Tesla says they only report cars "delivered to the customer". It sounds like they did not plan to deliver it to you by Sep30, so I dont see how that boosts their numbers.

lilbean | 2017年10月4日

Tesla has a different timeline. Who didn't know the Model X was delayed. It was big news.

burdogg | 2017年10月4日

scabello800 - when you hit buy - you don't get in line. The car manufacturer of custom designed cars does not creat an equal line that you "line" up in and get it in the order that you placed the order.

Example Customer 1 buys day 1, Customer 2 buys day 2, 3 , day 3, and so on.
Customer 1 gets 5 seater, no PUP, plain standard black, Cream interior option, 75D

Cust 2 - gets 5 seater, PUP, Standard black, standard interior, 75 D

Cust 3- gets 6 seater, PUP, Blue, White interior, 90D

Cust 4 - gets 6 Seater, PUP, White, black interior 90D

Cust 5 gets 5 seater, no PUP, Red, white interior 75 D

Tesla so happens to be on the line working on 5 seater, so cust 1,2 and 5 get the builds started. Cust 5 just jumped ahead of cust 4 and 5.

I know simplified but on a grand scale, this is how the line moves. You don't have every single car on the line with a different build just because they ordered first. Hence the VIN numbers do NOT come off sequential.

I know this from first hand - Saxman and I ordered at two different times - he was a couple weeks later than I was - yet we picked up our cars at the same location the same day - and that was the earliest either of us could get it. So Saxman in a sense jumped up to me in the line. At the same time, there were others on the forums who actually took delivery a week or two ahead of me that placed their order 2+ weeks after me.

So, no, there is no guarantee of a date when you place the order - there is no contract that you will have the car by this date, and then they SWITCHED it on you. You are still getting the exact item you paid for.

For those that want to really know what bait and switch is, I give you Meriam-Webster Dictionary:
"1 :a sales tactic in which a customer is attracted by the advertisement of a low-priced item but is then encouraged to buy a higher-priced one
2 :the ploy of offering a person something desirable to gain favor (such as political support) then thwarting expectations with something less desirable"
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bait%20and%20switch

Now go ahead and try to construe this delivery date into the bait and switch definition.

Google definition:
bait-and-switch
noun
the action (generally illegal) of advertising goods that are an apparent bargain, with the intention of substituting inferior or more expensive goods.
"a bait-and-switch scheme"

Wikipedia:
First, customers are "baited" by merchants's advertising products or services at a low price, but when customers visit the store, they discover that the advertised goods either are not available or are not as good as expected, or the customers are pressured by sales people to consider similar, but higher-priced, items ("switching"). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait-and-switch

From investopedia:
What is 'Bait And Switch'
A dishonest marketing tactic in which a marketer advertises a very attractive price/rate/term that is really a teaser rate meant to attract customers. Once the customer comes into the store/office to inquire about the advertised price/rate (the "bait"), the advertiser will attempt to sell the customer a more expensive product (the "switch").
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bait-switch.asp

Shall I go on??

burdogg | 2017年10月4日

All this being said, I bet gvsrsh gets his car in December.

lilbean | 2017年10月4日

Exactly. My date changed and then it was delivered on time.

Triggerplz | 2017年10月4日
burdogg | 2017年10月4日

I get that we all are anxious to get our cars and want them as soon as we hit "order". We have all been there. But this bait and switch on a date is rising to a whole new level.

Again, I will say he gets it in December - A lot of times, at the end of the year, they work extra hard on oversees vehicles at first of the last quarter (right now) and put all closer to home vehicles on hold. That way they can get the last push of deliveries to as many people as possible to maximize their delivery count for the year. Would be nice if he gets it in November, but knowing how Tesla deals with end of year, I bet it is first to middle of December.

burdogg | 2017年10月4日

I really needed that one Triggerplz :) (Although most of the book is not my own words, just copy and paste for definitions :)

Triggerplz | 2017年10月4日

Let it out :-)

mot | 2019年3月31日

A new approach to the usual Tesla Bait and Switch. Three days ago I went in to buy a Model 3 (I already own a Model S). During the discussion with the salesperson, she stated that there would be a $500 bonus on the trade-in. This morning I took the wife and the pink slip in to finalize the deal. I met with not one but two of the salespeople. As we were finalizing the deal, I was informed that the bonus $500 for the trade in, I had to take delivery of the car today but the car would not be available for eight weeks.

That was a very pretty bait and switch!

My decision was to walk away (with a bad taste in my mouth).

jjgunn | 2019年3月31日

Prove you own a Model S by starting a new thread.

lilbean | 2019年4月1日

What bait do you guys use? I can never catch anything. I just fish. TIA.